Author Topic: Enfield Council - 52M Failure to comply with prohibition of motor vehicles - Oakwood Crescent N21 Jct. with Prince G  (Read 1197 times)

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Good afternoon all,

Today I have received a PCN for turning into Oakwood Crescent from Prince George Avenue N21.

Google maps link

There was no warning that the road was restricted at that time until you actually turn onto the road.  I immediately stopped and got out to check the signage, saw the restriction, turned the car around and left the road.

The evidence on the council site rather specifically cuts the video evidence at the point where I open the door to get out to check the signage - totally removing the part where I get back in to turn around and go back the way I came.

The street view images aren't up to date and are missing for the parts of the junction that are relevant, so I will attempt to get photos.  I will also upload photos of the PCN when I can but it looks to be a pretty standard letter.


Here is one of the photos from the PCN which shows the signage and the distance I travelled into the road.


Imgpile Link

Since I didn't actually drive down the road and turned around as soon as I realised I am hopeful that one of you wonderful people can help me successfully appeal the case.

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Since I didn't actually drive down the road and turned around as soon as I realised I am hopeful that one of you wonderful people can help me successfully appeal the case.
Well, hopefully !! Your problem is you actually drove past the signs. Such is the venality and rapacity of London councils, that they will refuse any representations you submit to them, and at the same time re-offering the discount to encourage you to cough-up. So to fight this you need a very robust appeal case that will win at London Tribunals, because there is no discount if you lose there.

Problem is that GSV is way out-of-date at 2009. If you live locally we need to know if there are any advance warning signs. We also need to see the PCN, all sides, so please post it, and only redact your name and address. There is a video we can view too.

In addition to the above, if you are willing to take them all the way to London Tribunals there may be a 'technical' appeal based on their mismanagement of the enforcement process. Such appeals have now won several times, and have nothing to do with the alleged contravention. So you may well ask why the councils don't up their game so such appeals fail. The sad answer is that they make so much Wonga from people who just cough-up straightaway, (like >95%), that they can afford to lose a few cases. It's water off a ducks back for them.

I live round the corner from here so can check for you if needed.

I'm pretty sure there are warning signs but can't be 100%=- were you approaching from the West (Oakwood) or East (Green Dragon Lane)?

Also, please share the PCN as I believe Enfield's template contains a flaw which means it isn't compliant with the legislative framework.

Hi all, thanks for your help so far.

I am not too familiar with the area but I believe we were approaching from Oakwood, I turned right onto Oakwood Crescent.

I have uploaded the PCN, video and pictures from the PCN into this folder:

Google Drive · drive.google.com


I have also taken two photographs showing:

1) the only signs before the turn are a 'Traffic Enforcement Cameras' sign on the right, and a School sign and Humped Crossing sign on the left.  No sign warning of a restricted entry road coming up.

2) the tree right in the way of the view of the road we turned into obscuring the signs.

The video clearly shows us stopping immediately after entering the road, and it is clear from the car's road position that I opened the door to get out to look at the sign rather than to park the car, which is what we believe they are trying to show by cutting the video where they did.

The picture of the numberplate is also from the front of the car so it is clear that we have turned around to not use the road.

The fact that the house on the corner and the junction has been blurred on GSV and the fact that GSV is fairly up to date 50 yards either side of the junction suggests the council may have requested GSV to restrict the view as well, but I may just be overly cynical at this point.

Thanks again for the help!

Drove past yesterday and couldn't spot a warning sign - but, especially if turning right, I'd suggest the council will say the signs are positioned so that they are visible prior to completing the turn.  Not my area of expertise, so see what others say.

However, you can argue against the non-compliant wording in the PCN - see this other Enfield case...

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-31j-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited-southbury-rdeato/

@MrChips I would say that area of Prince George Ave get very congested with heavy traffic (as can be seen in the still posted by the OP) it would be very easy to miss those signs until you are committed to the turn between constant oncoming traffic.
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Excellent points, thank you!

I am submitting the appeal today (no doubt instant rejection) but please may I ask exactly what I should write? Or some kind of direction what not to write?

Thanks again

Good afternoon all,

I submitted the appeal and at the beginning of March Enfield council replied with a letter saying I was not able to appeal as I was not the registered keeper of the vehicle.

There is wording on this letter saying about waiting for a notice to arrive so that it can be appealed but the next letter we received was today, and this is a charge notice saying the charge is now £240?  It has no way of appealing or otherwise contacting the council about this charge.

Rejection Letter

Charge Certificate

Please help!  I can't afford £240 and I feel this PCN should have been dismissed anyway.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:18:21 pm by lumphallway786 »

Who owns the vehicle and who made the formal represenations?
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Hi thanks for your reply!

My partner is the registered keeper and I was driving (named driver on the insurance policy).  So it doesn't make sense when they are talking about hire/lease?