Author Topic: Haringey, code 02 parked loading/unloading restricted street, Green Lanes N4  (Read 381 times)

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Hi

I parked my car at 16:46 on Saturday 07/12/24.  The parking sign stated that the restricted time ended at 17:00, so I paid for 15 mins of parking.  On returning to the car I had a parking ticket.  So I took photos of signs and car etc.  I honestly could not understand why I had been given ticket and I thought I had complied completely with the parking restrictions, purchasing the required parking. 

When I got home and studied the images I noticed at the top of the pole was another much smaller sign that is maybe the problem, stating no parking between 5-7.

If this is the case, I feel like I have walked into a trap.  I was following the parking restrictions between 9am-5am, but then at the top of the pole in a much small less visible sign there is a restriction between 5-7.  Surely this is too confusing and should be just as visible, same font and colour as the parking sign with the restrictions I followed.

Any help would be very much appreciated, as I genuinely feel like this is a deliberate attempt to miss lead and confuse anyone trying to park that is unfamiliar with the restrictions.

Please find below links to all relevant images.

Thanks

https://ibb.co/album/p2bTgP


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Well, sorry, but the sign is OK and completely legal. Parking signs like this, where parking and also loading is banned at certain times, then pay-for-parking is also at certain times, are commonplace.

So to convey the meaning of the Traffic Regulation Order for this location, several signs must be used together, with the most important one at the top. The top sign is a standard "No Waiting" sign with the times when it's not allowed. Underneath that is a sign saying when loading is not allowed, because is is an exemption to the sign above, unless signed separately as it is here. Then the final sign tells you when you have to pay for parking. Outside the hours on the three signs, parking is allowed and free. So Sunday has no restrictions at all as Sunday is not listed in any of the signs.

Please give us a GSV link to the exact location of parking so we can check out the sign and the road markings.
However, it does not look as if you have any credible appeal argument on the contravention itself, but appeals are often won on the council management of the enforcement process, so wait for others to comment.



Ok thanks for taking a look.  This is the location:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Flat+A-C,+425-427+Green+Lanes,+Harringay+Ladder,+London+N4+1EY/@51.5793606,-0.099152,3a,75y,225.06h,61.46t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4yIZliFOV4_CLnKEbktIMQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D28.541653373901177%26panoid%3D4yIZliFOV4_CLnKEbktIMQ%26yaw%3D225.0642622648471!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x48761bf4bd4f2661:0xa0324962773a3890!8m2!3d51.5793301!4d-0.0992678!16s%2Fg%2F11k3rxh7cb?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Thanks
The yellow line tells you immediately that there is a waiting restriction the applies less than 24x7 (double yellows do this). The yellow kerb 'blip' tells you there is a similar loading restriction. So to park, it is necessary to read the sign to see when you cannot park. The sign that does this is the one at the top of the sign array. It is very important when looking at a sign like this, that you look at everything.  If you don't you'll get a lot of PCNs in London where the streets are patrolled by CEOs 24x7.

IMO, I think the CEO misunderstands the law.

Imposition of penalty charges for relevant road traffic contraventions
5.—(1) A penalty charge may be imposed with respect to a vehicle where that vehicle is involved in a relevant road traffic contravention which is committed on or after the commencement date.

(2) But no penalty charge may be imposed under paragraph (1) in relation to a parking contravention where—

(a)the vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and is left beyond the permitted parking period, and

(b)the period for which it is left beyond the permitted parking period does not exceed 10 minutes.


'Designated parking place' permitted parking ended 17.00.

PCN states time of contravention is 17.10.

IMO, the period for which it [the car] was left did not exceed 10 minutes.

I suggest something along these lines:

Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.
The circumstances here being that the PCN alleges a contravention at 17.10 in a 'designated parking place' whose parking restrictions ended at 17.00.
However, the council are prevented from demanding a penalty until the car has been parked for more than 10 minutes beyond the 'permitted parking period'. In practice a PCN could not be issued until 17.11 at the earliest.
The facts is this case are objective - see the PCN and Regulation 5 of the 'General' Regulations (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/2/made)

Edit - the line which some authorities take is that the waiting restriction has nothing to do with the parking place and therefore the regs don't apply. Apart from the interesting matter of the CEO waiting until 17.10 - perhaps a pure coincidence-the other issue is how the parking place is designated in the TMO. Whatever the case, it's for the authority to respond and argue and when they do you can consider what to do.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 02:49:25 pm by H C Andersen »

Ok great, thanks for your help much appreciated

Success! PCN cancelled.

I challenged the PCN as advised by H C Andersen, and received this reply today:

Thank you for writing to us.

Although your PCN was correctly issued, we have cancelled it on this occasion.

You were parked where there are yellow stripes on the kerb and white 'No loading' signs. The kerb
stripes mean you are not allowed to park – even to load or unload – at certain times. A double kerb
stripe means the rule applies 24 hours a day. A single kerb stripe, as in your case, means the rule
applies some of the time (the sign shows the times). If no days are shown on the sign, the rule applies
seven days a week. You were issued a PCN for parking at a time when the rule applies. The purpose
of this rule is to improve traffic flow and safety at busy times.

The 10 minutes statutory observation grace period only applies, when the vehicle was first legally
parked or where permitted parking item expires, which this case, end by 17:00 as shown on the time
clock at the location. The vehicle was parked in a loading restriction and contravening the restriction
in place.

You were parked on a loading restriction. Pay and Display tickets are not valid here at the time; it is
only usable in bays at the times stated on the signs plate.
If you get another PCN in similar circumstances, we may decide not to cancel it.



Yours sincerely
Mr Ighomrore
Parking Process Case Officer



Great early-xmas present so thank you H C Andersen,  very much appreciated!  Merry Christmas!!