Author Topic: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued  (Read 841 times)

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stamfordman

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2024, 04:51:20 pm »
Seems they have ignored your reps and the proof they requested.

This should be enough to win at tribunal and I doubt they will contest anyway.

You should have left out the bit about taking it to adjudication - it's pointless.
Your reps were also not good in other respects and too confrontational. A simple follow up providing the evidence needed for them to 'tick a box' they indicated in their first rejection was sufficient to claim the exemption.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2024, 04:57:00 pm by stamfordman »

H C Andersen

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2024, 09:43:23 pm »
Forget other vehicles, you start to undermine your argument by referring to these because it gives the impression that your story is concocted and that actually you parked there because you've seen others do the same.

Did they have permission of the occupier??? Of course not.

You stick to your account:
You had the permission of the occupier, and here it is.  *

You also add procedural impropriety because nowhere in the NOR has the authority referred to their reasons for rejecting your claim to the exemption. But they have found the time to refer to legislation which was repealed 16 years ago(London Local Authorities' Act 2003 s14(5)) which gives the impression that they haven't considered your representations against the correct legislative framework.

*- whether the adjudicator believes this is legit is another matter!

LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2024, 08:31:48 am »
They have found the time to refer to legislation which was repealed 16 years ago(London Local Authorities' Act 2003 s14(5)) which gives the impression that they haven't considered your representations against the correct legislative framework.


Thank you stamfordman and HC Anderson,

Yes I have an issue of over complicating responses and give as much more information and trying to be very specific an detailed as you may have noticed - I'll keep this simple as you both have stated

1. State the exemption Traffic Management Act 2004 S86(3)
2. I had gotten permission before parking (which I did)
3. Procedural impropriety, council has not given reason for rejecting against the exemption

Last 2 questions before I write up my response, should I be posting it before i submit for adjudication for review.

A.Should I be adding the quoted bit above, which I believe is referene to them stating a sign is or is not needed in their response?

B. I noticed London Local Authorities' Act 2003 s14(4)) is actually very specific, if not more specific then the original exemption we were looking at, should we be using this or stating this alongside point 1?


H C Andersen

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2024, 12:18:13 pm »
S14 London Local Authorities Act 2003 has been repealed and replaced by s86 TMA.

The version of the 2003 Act which is available on 'legislation.gov' is the original version which doesn't show the repeal.

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LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2024, 08:14:15 pm »
Hi Guys,

Am about to submit the appeal tonight as it's the final day, heres a draft of my appeal, will this suffice, did add a few extra points using their own words

"Permission and consent was sought from the owner prior to parking the car in-front of the entrance where the dropped kerb/special enforcement area, this was highlighted to the enforcement authority in my initial appeal along with the exemption that would apply in this case (Traffic Management Act 2004 S86(3)). The enforcement authority stated as no proof was provided in-regards to the consent hence they would not be able to accept the appeal nor cancel the ticket, this proof requested was then provided at the next stage of the appeal process.

However the enforcement authority seems to have ignored all of the above and still rejected the appeal, there has been a procedural impropriety, nowhere in the NOR has the authority referred to their reasons for rejecting the claim to the exemption and also ignoring the evidence that they themshelves had requested. Rather they have found the time to refer to legislation which was repealed 16 years ago (London Local Authorities' Act 2003 s14(5)) giving impression that they have not considered my  representations against the correct legislative framework.

*In addition to this the enforcement authority have stated that the purpose of this drop kerb is to assist pedestrians, people with buggies and wheelchair users to cross the road, when the primary reason for the drop kerb is clearly to provide a vehicle to access to the adjacent property."


* have removed this section from the final version.

Let me know if I should word this differently
« Last Edit: August 22, 2024, 10:39:21 pm by LondonTraveller84 »

LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2024, 02:34:25 pm »
All,

Ive got a hearing in person on Thursday 3rd October and council have sent through their representation and they holding their ground! not sure if my arugment to it will stand, that were allowed to park with permission, which the council say is not the case.

Ill post their response later tonight, to get some feedback asap, else it looks like i'll be losing this case :(

stamfordman

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2024, 03:26:59 pm »
Yes we need to see their case summary.

LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2024, 04:40:20 pm »
Please seee attached,  I've attached all the documents, case summary, including the initial appeal, follow up appeals and their responses to make it easy to catch up, as this thread has a lot in it :)

https://imgur.com/a/VrXMCzd

Await to hear back.. so I can be prepared and know what to say or not to say.

mickR

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2024, 05:08:35 pm »
looks like failure to consider based on their view it's a pedestrian access and not a VXO as it most clearly is.
I note also they state

Parking against a stretch of lowered, sloping kerb is prohibited unless exempted
The person who owns/occupies the property next to where the kerb is lowered cannot grant others permission to park

really?  ::)

LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2024, 05:17:59 pm »
looks like failure to consider based on their view it's a pedestrian access and not a VXO as it most clearly is.
I note also they state

Parking against a stretch of lowered, sloping kerb is prohibited unless exempted
The person who owns/occupies the property next to where the kerb is lowered cannot grant others permission to park

really?  ::)

Excuse my lack of understanding but what is a VXO?

So are you saying that I still have a solid case and that their argument is based on a view that isn't backed by anything other then their own stance.

And that the fact they have said there are exemption, it is that of seeking permission, but they've aslo negated this by saying cannot seek permission from the owner, thus implying only council can apply an exemption such as emergency services?

I guess how would I put my case forward to the adjudicator on this, do i stick to my final appeal citing (Traffic Management Act 2004 S86(3)).

mickR

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2024, 05:31:54 pm »
VXO = Vehicle cross over
ie dropped kerb for vehicular access as opposed to a dropped kerb for pedestrians crossing the road.

LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2024, 05:34:58 pm »
VXO = Vehicle cross over
ie dropped kerb for vehicular access as opposed to a dropped kerb for pedestrians crossing the road.

They've said its for both pedestrians and also vehicle (point 5 in case summary) and in their view both do not allow one to park in front, with permission from owner.

stamfordman

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2024, 06:49:27 pm »
It's not a pedestrian crossing so they can forget that.

You have the permission letter and it is an exemption.

Is the gate in use for vehicles and is there room anyway, as you know the resident? No matter if it is but useful if not.

LondonTraveller84

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2024, 06:53:56 pm »
It's not a pedestrian crossing so they can forget that.

You have the permission letter and it is an exemption.

Is the gate in use for vehicles and is there room anyway, as you know the resident? No matter if it is but useful if not.

Is there anything that defines a pedestrian crossing or not, that I can use also in my aid to counter that point?

The gate is in use but obviously I seeked permission, that if it was to be used the resident could call me and I would move the vehicle if required. Although I was parked overnight till the morning.

stamfordman

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Re: Dropped Kerb/Single Yellow on Sunday, PCN issued
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2024, 06:59:58 pm »
A crossing isn't made just because there are vehicle access dropped footways opposite or sort of opposite each other. Footways are usually dropped for one purpose.

You could take a pic of this view showing what looks like one of the garage's cars parked where you were presumably with permission although I note above there was advice not to mention other situations. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/57+Shelley+Ave,+London+E12+6SP/@51.5431365,0.0493544,3a,90y,65.17h,78.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spZKbk2yKS4Pt3FuP7GDdww!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D11.166777010415927%26panoid%3DpZKbk2yKS4Pt3FuP7GDdww%26yaw%3D65.17281238262167!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d8a64cf0797aa1:0x71b90f24463c4bfc!8m2!3d51.5432372!4d0.0493281!16s%2Fg%2F11c1jt0hs8?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 07:03:03 pm by stamfordman »