Author Topic: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD  (Read 199 times)

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cp8759

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2023, 11:19:26 pm »
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZttwDhGUJ2k

The problem is that if the signs are there and the council turns up at the tribunal with evidence of that, the appeal would be very weak. Frankly with the distance between the junction and the restriction, it wouldn't be a particularly strong case to begin with.

I can only see the first page of the PCN, can you show us the remaining pages please?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
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COUNCILSAREPOO

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2023, 04:54:43 pm »
I have got the PCN photos.
I have attached put them in this post.

Do you think it would be worth appealing for the blue badge exemption? As they have ignored this and I have asked the CEO to exempt the vehicle from the LTN as a blue badge holder and she has said she don't get involved with PCN.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 04:58:32 pm by COUNCILSAREPOO »

cp8759

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2023, 03:44:18 pm »
As I understand your case, you're saying that a blue badge holder would be exempt if they applied for a permit, but on this occasion a permit had not been applied for.

Therefore while a case can be made that there is no traffic management purpose in enforcing this PCN, by the letter of the law a contravention did occur. Unfortunately therefore this is a case of mere mitigation, and the tribunal cannot allow an appeal based on mitigating circumstances.

So you'd be reliant on two possible ways out of this:

1) The adjudicator finds that the authority did not properly consider the representations made, which allows the tribunal to accept a collateral challenge and allow the appeal, or
2) The adjudicator invites the authority to reconsider the mitigation provided.

The issue with point 1 is that it is very much down to the adjudicator on the day, some adjudicators take the view that if the notice of rejection says that the representations have been considered, they can't go behind that.

The issue with point 2 is that even if the adjudicator accepts that the mitigation in this case is compelling enough to warrant a reconsideration, there is no statutory power direct a reconsideration in a moving traffic case, so the adjudicator cannot force them to reconsider. Therefore if they simply ignore the adjudicator, the adjudicator would be compelled to refuse the appeal.

It is true that Croydon is a bit rubbish at putting its evidence packs together in the first place, and it is always possible they might mess up the evidence pack, but even taking that into account I would judge your chances of winning at 50/50 at best.

Of course this assumes the driver lives inside the relevant zone to begin with, if this was just a visitor from outside of the area who just happened to have a blue badge, the exemption isn't applicable in any event.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

COUNCILSAREPOO

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2023, 06:20:29 pm »
Thanks for your help.
You say that the blue badge exemption is only for residents? but I cant find this on the website. The driver was visiting and not a resident.
The carers permit and the schools permit page all mention that they have to be within the LTN but the blue badge bit doesn't. So for me reading this it would seem that any blue badge holder would be exempt. Other boroughs actually write that you have to live in the borough etc to get a blue badge exemption. Some boroughs allow all blue badge holders to be exempt.

cp8759

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2023, 11:30:46 pm »
You say that the blue badge exemption is only for residents?
I didn't say that at all.

The blue badge exemption is only for people who have applied for a blue badge permit and had the permit issued to them (I believe it's a virtual permit so you'd likely get an email confirmation). From what you say, your friend did not apply for a permit and did not have a permit on the day in question. Maybe they can apply for one for future visits, but as far as the contravention in question is concerned it's too late as the permit would not have retrospective effect.

If your friend wants to enquire about getting a blue badge permit for future visits, the council website says to write to chnpermits@croydon.gov.uk
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2023, 11:37:53 pm »
You say that the blue badge exemption is only for residents?
I didn't say that at all.

The blue badge exemption is only for people who have applied for a blue badge permit and had the permit issued to them (I believe it's a virtual permit so you'd likely get an email confirmation). From what you say, your friend did not apply for a permit and did not have a permit on the day in question. Maybe they can apply for one for future visits, but as far as the contravention in question is concerned it's too late as the permit would not have retrospective effect.

If your friend wants to enquire about getting a blue badge permit for future visits, the council website says to write to chnpermits@croydon.gov.uk

Yeah thanks, she didn't apply for a permit because the page she looked at said blue badge holders was exempt but that page didnt say you need to apply for a permit. That information was on another page.
She has asked croydon to exempt her from all the LTNs in croydon as they already have her details and she finds it hard to do the repetitive forms for all the LTNs. We are waiting for a reply from them.

cp8759

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2023, 10:45:43 pm »
The discount seems to still be available, so it might be sensible to pay it before the penalty goes up. I'm all for challenging everything, but if there are no arguable grounds there's no point in throwing good money after bad.

If on the other hand the penalty goes up to 130 before payment is made, then your friend might as well appeal as the penalty doesn't go up any further if she loses.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

COUNCILSAREPOO

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2023, 08:16:14 pm »
The discount seems to still be available, so it might be sensible to pay it before the penalty goes up. I'm all for challenging everything, but if there are no arguable grounds there's no point in throwing good money after bad.

If on the other hand the penalty goes up to 130 before payment is made, then your friend might as well appeal as the penalty doesn't go up any further if she loses.

Hi,
thanks for your help.
The council have cancelled the PCN.

I sent multiple letters to different departments and the CEO of croydon. The CEO didnt even acknowledge the letter or the request to register the car as exempt. Asked for reasonable adjustment to register the car without filling in multiple forms for each LTN. As my friend finds if difficult to do use the computer for a long time. The CEO has ignored this request. So looks like i'll have to escalate this with the MP.

The PCN department emailed her back to ask for the copy of the blue badge and then they cancelled it, so it may have been that they didn't look at all the stuff we sent. I did put the stuff about procedural impropriety and failing to look at all the evidence at the appeal stage in the letter.

Thanks for everyone help it was much appreciated.
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Incandescent

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Re: CROYDON PARSONS MEAD
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2023, 09:40:06 pm »
Well done ! I suspect they didn't want to appear venal and grasping, (even though they are !).