Author Topic: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far  (Read 156 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hello,

I received today 4 penalty charge notices from Croydon Council. Three in my name and one in my husband's. My daughter did 4 days of work experience at the school there and because of distance my husband and I dropped her off and picked her up.

I believe there will be more PCN's coming as they have "only" sent 4 tickets for two days.

PCN's dated 19/05/2026
 
1. 12/05/2026 08:20:32 Springfield Rod, Thornton Heath by Northwood Road, By Northwood Road (mine)
2. 12/05/2026 08:21:24 Ingram Rd, Thornton Heath by Carolina Road, Near Carolina Road (mine)

I entered Springfield Road, did two right turns, dropped my daughter off and left.

3. 13/05/2026 08:18:25 Springfield Rod, Thornton Heath by Northwood Road, By Northwood Road (mine)
4. 13/05/2026 15:33:53 Ingram Rd, Thornton Heath by Carolina Road, Near Carolina Road (husband)

Knowing that there are potentially a lot more tickets coming is really distressing. Potentially 4 tickets per day for 4 days.

On Carolina Road there is a sign saying that no right turns (Mon-Fri) 8:00 - 9:30am 2 - 4pm except authorised vehicles. However, most of the time this sign is obscured because lots of vans and large vehicles park on the right hand side and you have to drive in the middle of the road so can't see that sign. There is another sign once you turned into the road but by then I guess it is too late?

On entering Springfield Road you are at a roundabout but there is a sign pointing straight ahead and then one near you but on other side of road.

Would I have chance appealing these tickets, I mean this is almost extortion. Would I be able to claim continuous contravention or procedural unfairness or something? It seems totally disproportionate to the infraction?

Let me know if you want any further details. Would really hope for some advise on this.

Many thanks




Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


You should submit representations against all of the PCNs together that are dated before PCN 1 was served at your address. The basis needs to be that although you now know there is an advance sign, it is usually obscured by high-sided vehicles so you had no warning of the restriction. In addition, you consider that the sign, mounted on the right-hand side of the road in the direction of travel is incorrectly mounted and should be on the left.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kMK1LyDqV6QbvGFC7

However, with the number of PCNs you mention, you will be testing credibility with the council, because you would be claiming the advance sign was missed on every one of the ocasions you passed the restriction signs. So don't expect the council to roll over.

Do any of the drivers not understand the meaning of the "Flying Motorbike" signs ? They are all over London now and making councils shedloads of money. Here is a link to read: -
 https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2026/05/beware-flying-motorbike-sign.html

Please post one of the PCNs, only redacting name and address.

The out-turn you want to achieve is to pay the 1st PCN at a discount and get the others cancelled.

Hello Incadescent, thank you for your reply.

All 4 tickets received today are dated the same.

Also, and I probably "incriminate" myself here but we have been taking our daughter to this school every Saturday for the last 7 years. On Saturday it isn't restricted and both my husband and myself have never noticed these signs.

What I find very unfair is that you can be fined twice within a minute for the same journey that is disproportionate,  no?


https://imgpile.com/p/6dHRA7i


Here the link to the images. the drawing is of from where I come and where I go and blue dots of the signs. My husband luckily only drove into Ingram Road directly and turned around there rather than me going around and getting 2 PCN for it.

All I can say is to reiterate that you might succeed with a non-confrontational representation on the lines I previously suggested, and mention, (in a humble way), that you think the total amount of the penalties is disproportionate. Post up their response when you get it.

Have you been living long in London because use of these "FLying Motorbike" signs have become very widespread in London over the last 4 years or so. I would expect long term residents to be familiar with such signs and their restrictions. These signs are the equivalent of the traditional No Entry sign; would you have passed these ?

3 more tickets arrived today.

3 more tickets arrived today.
Try and contact the council to find out how many more are on the way. All I can suggest is you submit reps on the basis of not knowing of the contravention until the first PCN arrived. If they prove obdurate, you could try contacting your local councillor on the matter, (the insistence on a grossly disproportionate penalty for a simple mistake). It would be something of a gamble taking the matter to London Tribunals, because each of the PCNs would seem to have been lawfully served.

Good afternoon, I have created 5 separate appeals for Croydon Council and was wondering if you could cast your knowledgeable eye on these? Would you remove/add something else. Many thanks. Sorry for the long, repetitive post.



PCN 1:


PCN Number: CR24097859

Date of Contravention: 12 May 2026 at 08:20

Location: Springfield Road, Thornton Heath, by Northwood Road


 

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the reasons set out below.



Background and Context

On 12 May 2026, I was dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, Thornton Heath, where she was undertaking a formal week of work experience. This was a temporary, one-off arrangement and not a regular weekday journey. I am not a regular weekday driver in this area. For the past seven years I have driven to the same school exclusively on Saturdays, on which day there is no restriction in operation. I had no prior knowledge of the Healthy School Streets restriction.



Ground 1: Inadequate and Flawed Advance Signage: Northwood Road Approach



The advance warning sign alerting drivers to the Springfield Road restriction is critically flawed in its placement. As confirmed by Google Street View imagery of Northwood Road (April 2025), this sign is mounted exclusively on the right-hand side of the road. Under standard UK traffic management principles, regulatory signs should be positioned on the left-hand side so that they fall naturally within a driver’s forward line of sight. Placing this sign on the right is non-standard and means it sits entirely outside the sightline of a driver approaching the junction in normal traffic conditions. Furthermore, this right-hand sign is positioned directly alongside a TfL bus stop serving Route 450 towards Crystal Palace. If a bus is stopped at this stop during the morning school run restriction hours (as is entirely routine), the sign is completely physically obscured from oncoming traffic. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung vehicle, my eye level is further compressed, meaning my view of this already non-standard right-hand sign was blocked by the roadside infrastructure on the mornings in question. The sign at the entry to Springfield Road itself is also positioned on the right-hand side at the roundabout exit and faces directly towards oncoming traffic at an angle that makes it genuinely ambiguous as to whether it applies to Springfield Road or to Northwood Road continuing straight ahead. There is a further sign inside Springfield Road, which I did not see in time given the speed of travel through a roundabout junction. It is wholly unreasonable to penalise a driver on the basis of signage that is improperly positioned, liable to be obscured by routine bus operations, and ambiguous in its application.


 
Ground 2: Notification Delay


This PCN was not received until 19 May 2026. The issue is not the time taken for postal delivery but the absence of any contemporaneous notice at the time of the first contravention. Because no notification was issued at the point of the offence, I continued to use the same route on 13 and 14 May in complete ignorance that I had done anything wrong. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a financial trap: penalties accumulated silently while I remained entirely unaware. Had any notification been received after 12 May, the subsequent contraventions, including PCNs CR24101617, CR24109007 and CR24103678, would not have occurred. The journeys on 13 and 14 May, taking place entirely before the first notice was served, constitute a continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance rather than separate, deliberate breaches.



Ground 3: Disproportionality

I have received five Penalty Charge Notices in connection with what was a single temporary arrangement to support my daughter's formal work experience placement. The cumulative penalty of £400 (5 x £80) is wholly disproportionate to the nature of the infraction, which caused no harm, was not deliberate, and arose from a genuine and reasonable failure to identify ambiguous signage. The contraventions on 13 and 14 May constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same initial ignorance, not separate wilful breaches. I respectfully ask that the council take this into account.



I trust that the above representations will be considered carefully and look forward to your response.





PCN2



PCN Number: CR24098603

Date of Contravention: 12 May 2026 at 08:21

Location: Ingram Road, Thornton Heath, by Carolina Road




I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the reasons set out below.



Background and Context

On 12 May 2026, I was dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, Thornton Heath, where she was undertaking a formal week of work experience. This was a temporary, one-off arrangement. I am not a regular weekday driver in this area and had no prior knowledge of the Healthy School Streets restriction.



Ground 1: This PCN Relates to the Same Continuous Journey as CR24097859

I must draw to the council's attention that this PCN was issued at 08:21:24 on 12 May 2026, precisely one minute after PCN CR24097859, which was issued at 08:20:32 on the same morning. Both contraventions arose from a single, uninterrupted journey: I entered Springfield Road, turned right onto Carolina Road, and turned right onto Ingram Road solely to avoid reversing on a narrow residential road. This was one continuous journey with one decision to enter the area, not two separate or deliberate decisions to breach a restriction. It would be wholly disproportionate to impose two full penalties for what was a single act of entry.



Ground 2: Signage on Carolina Road Obscured by Legally Parked Vehicles

The no-right-turn sign on Carolina Road is positioned on the left-hand side of the road at pavement level. On the morning in question, white vans were legally parked on the left-hand side of Carolina Road. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung vehicle, my sightline to this sign was entirely blocked by the parked vehicles. I was required to drive in the centre of the road to pass them, which placed me further from the sign and made it impossible to see. Google Street View imagery of this location corroborates that the sign is positioned in a spot where any standard-height vehicle parked legally alongside it would obstruct the view of a driver in a low vehicle.



Ground 3: Ingram Road Signs Not Visible Before the Turn

There is an advance warning sign on Carolina Road before the turn into Ingram Road. However, as set out in Ground 2 above, this sign was not visible to me on the morning in question because it was obscured by legally parked vans on the left-hand side of the road. I was driving in the centre of the road to pass those vehicles and had no sightline to the sign. Furthermore, the restriction signs on Ingram Road itself are positioned facing along the road and only become visible to a driver after the right turn from Carolina Road has already been completed. By the time those signs are visible, the contravention has already been recorded. In the absence of any visible advance warning, a driver cannot be reasonably expected to comply with a restriction they had no opportunity to see before the relevant decision point.



Ground 4: Notification Delay

This PCN was not received until 19 May 2026. The issue is not the time taken for postal delivery but the absence of any contemporaneous notice at the time of the first contravention. No notification was issued at the point of the offence, and so I continued to use the same route on 13 and 14 May in complete ignorance. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a financial trap: penalties accumulated silently while I remained unaware. Because all contraventions took place before the first notice was served, they constitute a continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance rather than separate, deliberate breaches.



Ground 5: Disproportionality

I have received five Penalty Charge Notices in total, with a cumulative penalty of £400, in connection with a single temporary arrangement to support my daughter's formal work experience. The contraventions across all five PCNs constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same initial ignorance of the restriction, not separate wilful acts. I respectfully submit that a cumulative penalty of £400 is wholly disproportionate in these circumstances.





PCN3:



PCN Number: CR24101617

Date of Contravention: 13 May 2026 at 08:18

Location: Springfield Road, Thornton Heath, by Northwood Road



I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the reasons set out below.



Background and Context

On 13 May 2026, I was again dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy for her formal work experience placement. I used the same route as on 12 May as I had not yet received any notification that my earlier journey had triggered a Penalty Charge Notice.



Ground 1: Notification Delay (Primary Ground)

The PCN relating to my journey on 12 May 2026 (CR24097859) was not received until 19 May 2026. The issue is not the time taken for postal delivery but the absence of any contemporaneous notice at the time of the first contravention. Because no notification was issued at the point of the offence, I continued to use the same route on 13 May in complete ignorance. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a financial trap: a further penalty accumulated silently while I remained entirely unaware I had done anything wrong. The contravention on 13 May, having taken place before the first notice was served, constitutes part of a continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance rather than a separate, deliberate breach. It would be unjust to impose a further full penalty in these circumstances.



Ground 2: Inadequate and Flawed Advance Signage: Northwood Road Approach

As set out in my representation against CR24097859, the advance warning sign on Northwood Road is mounted on the right-hand side of the road, contrary to standard UK traffic management principles which require regulatory signs to be positioned on the left. It is also positioned directly alongside a TfL bus stop (Route 450), meaning any bus stopped during the morning restriction hours would physically block the sign from oncoming traffic. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung vehicle, my sightline to this already non-standard sign was further compressed by the surrounding roadside infrastructure. I had not identified it as applying to Springfield Road on my first journey and had no reason to approach it differently on the second.



Ground 3: Disproportionality

This PCN is one of five I have received in connection with a single temporary arrangement to support my daughter's formal work experience. The contraventions across all five PCNs constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same initial ignorance of the restriction, not separate wilful acts. A cumulative penalty of £400 is wholly disproportionate, particularly where, as here, this specific contravention would not have occurred had contemporaneous notice been issued after the first.





PCN4



PCN Number: CR24109007

Date of Contravention: 14 May 2026 at 08:25

Location: Springfield Road, Thornton Heath, by Northwood Road



I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the reasons set out below.



Background and Context

On 14 May 2026, I was dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy for the final day of her formal work experience placement. I had still not received any notification of the earlier contraventions on 12 and 13 May.



Ground 1: Notification Delay (Primary Ground)

The first PCN (CR24097859, 12 May) was not received until 19 May 2026, five days after this contravention. Neither the 12 May nor the 13 May PCNs had been received by 14 May. The issue is not the time taken for postal delivery but the complete absence of contemporaneous notice at the point of the first offence. Had any notification been issued after 12 May, I would have become aware of the restriction and would not have used this route again. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a financial trap in which penalties continued to accumulate while I remained entirely unaware. The contraventions on 13 and 14 May, occurring entirely before the first notice was served, constitute a continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance rather than separate, deliberate breaches.



Ground 2: Inadequate and Flawed Advance Signage: Northwood Road Approach

As set out in my representations against CR24097859 and CR24101617, the advance warning sign on Northwood Road is mounted on the right-hand side of the road, contrary to standard UK traffic management principles which require regulatory signs to be positioned on the left. It is also positioned directly alongside a TfL bus stop (Route 450), meaning any bus stopped during the morning restriction hours would physically block the sign from oncoming traffic. As the driver of a Fiat 500, my sightline to this already non-standard sign was further compressed by the surrounding roadside infrastructure. I had not identified it as applying to Springfield Road on either of my two previous journeys.



Ground 3: Disproportionality

This PCN is one of five I have received, with a total cumulative penalty of £400, in connection with a single temporary arrangement to drop my daughter at school for one week of work experience. I had no intention to flout any restriction and was entirely unaware one existed. The contraventions across all five PCNs constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same initial ignorance, not separate wilful acts. I respectfully ask the council to consider the totality of the circumstances and exercise its discretion accordingly.





PCN5



PCN Number: CR24103678

Date of Contravention: 14 May 2026 at 08:25

Location: Ingram Road, Thornton Heath, by Carolina Road



I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the reasons set out below.



Background and Context

On 14 May 2026, I was completing the school drop-off for the final day of my daughter's formal work experience placement at St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy. I had still not received any notification of the four earlier contraventions on 12 and 13 May.



Ground 1: This PCN Relates to the Same Continuous Journey as CR24109007

This PCN was issued at 08:25:57 on 14 May 2026, within moments of PCN CR24109007 issued at 08:25:57 on the same morning at Springfield Road. Both arose from a single uninterrupted drop-off journey: Springfield Road to Carolina Road to Ingram Road. This was one continuous journey with one decision to enter the area, not two separate contraventions. I respectfully submit it is disproportionate and unjust to impose two full penalties for a single act.



Ground 2: Signage on Carolina Road Obscured

As set out in my representation against CR24098603, the no-right-turn sign on Carolina Road is positioned at pavement level on the left-hand side. White vans were legally parked alongside it on the morning in question. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low vehicle, my sightline to the sign was completely blocked. I was driving in the centre of the road to pass the parked vehicles and the sign was not visible to me.



Ground 3: Ingram Road Signs Not Visible Before the Turn

As set out in my representation against CR24098603, there is an advance warning sign on Carolina Road before the turn into Ingram Road. However, on the morning in question this sign was obscured by legally parked vans on the left-hand side of Carolina Road. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung vehicle, my sightline to the sign was completely blocked by those vehicles. I was driving in the centre of the road to pass them and the sign was not visible. Additionally, the restriction signs on Ingram Road itself only become visible once the right turn from Carolina Road has already been completed. In the absence of any visible advance warning, I had no opportunity to identify the restriction before the contravention was recorded.



Ground 4: Notification Delay

Not one of the four earlier PCNs had been received by 14 May. The issue is not the time taken for postal delivery but the complete absence of contemporaneous notice at the point of the first offence. Had any notification been issued after 12 May, I would not have used this route again. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a financial trap in which penalties continued to accumulate silently. All contraventions after 12 May, having taken place before the first notice was served, constitute a continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance rather than separate, deliberate breaches.



Ground 5: Disproportionality

This is the fifth and final PCN I have received in connection with one week of school drop-offs for a formal work experience placement. The cumulative penalty of £400 is entirely disproportionate to what was an honest mistake arising from genuinely inadequate and ambiguous signage, compounded by the complete absence of contemporaneous notice after the first contravention. All five contraventions constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same initial ignorance, not separate wilful acts. I respectfully ask the council to exercise its discretion and cancel this notice.





Make sure you clearly link all of the PCNs in each representation. Hopefuuly, you'll end up paying only one.

Good evening,

I just wanted to give an update and say that Croydon Council cancelled 4 out of 7 tickets. They rejected the first PCN for each street.

Thanks for all your help.

Oh well, something salvaged !  Did they accept the discount for the others ?

Yes they did. They gave us 2 weeks to pay those 3.