Author Topic: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb? (Read 226 times)

neverpaying · « **on:** June 29, 2026, 04:30:39 pm »

Hello all,

I've been served this PCN on my windshield for Code 24: "Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space"

From my understanding, which may be horribly flawed, I thought that in a two-wheels up parking space like this, those mounting the kerb need to remain within the marked bay and not overhang on to the footpath.

However, because this road isn't a controlled parking zone, i.e. there is no parking restriction otherwise on the road, shouldn't this mean that parking on the road is valid?

Here is the TMO: "Consolidation Order 2018 No. 110 and 2018 No. 111"

My defence may be undermined by me still existing within the "projected" boundaries of the parking space, as designated on this map below...

while also not fitting neatly within it...

Is this worth contesting? Havering include this unreasonably effective line that a discount is not re-offered if a challenge is unsuccessful: "If you are contesting the penalty, you will not be able to pay the discounted charge if your challenge is unsuccessful. This does not affect your statutory right to make a representation."

This is the same location as my other thread

so I would be especially keen to find a flaw if one exists

PCN:

stamfordman · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2026, 05:05:37 pm »

That isn't a contravention if the street is unrestricted. The footway bays apply only to exempt two-wheel up parking on the footway.

Is my take.

tincombe · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2026, 06:59:46 pm »

+1.

OP, you and stamfordman are correct. The CEO is, shall we say, ill informed.

1. There is no designated parking place outside whose markings one could park;
2. Parking on the footway is OPTIONAL.

You'll no doubt be OK just with getting the PCN cancelled.

I would raise a stink. This is thorough incompetence which brings the council into disrepute.

Just bouncing the point around and looking to reassure you. We can decide how to formulate your reps later.

neverpaying · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2026, 11:19:46 am »

Thank you both.

If the council were to defend by suggesting that I am "blocking" the parking space by improperly marking, would that have any merit? i.e. would my position have been stronger if my car had fit exactly within the projected bay lines? Or is that irrelevant

I will have to submit representations by end of day tomorrow

mrmustard · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2026, 11:34:09 am »

The council haven't even painted a compliant bay. A bay which is for parking partially on the footway must have 4 painted sides and if you are meant to be fully on the footway it needs 3 painted sides, the kerb stones marking the fourth

Thus there is no bay to be in breach of parking outside of.

Strap yourself in for the ride, you may have to challenge 3 times (one of which is at the tribunal).

neverpaying · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2026, 03:18:07 pm »

Quote from: mrmustard on June 30, 2026, 11:34:09 am

The council haven't even painted a compliant bay. A bay which is for parking partially on the footway must have 4 painted sides and if you are meant to be fully on the footway it needs 3 painted sides, the kerb stones marking the fourth

Thus there is no bay to be in breach of parking outside of.

Strap yourself in for the ride, you may have to challenge 3 times (one of which is at the tribunal).

Thank you, I will include that in my defence and will challenge as many times as needed if success is likely.

Earlier, it was said: "The footway bays apply only to exempt two-wheel up parking on the footway" -- is there an official reference for this statement? The TMO that I linked in the the first post doesn't explicitly mention it, is it implicitly understood because of something else?

stamfordman · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2026, 04:57:47 pm »

I said that.

The point is footway parking is banned in London except where exempted by the authority. Here you have permission to park in certain footway bays presumably because the road is narrow.

But there is nothing forcing you to do so. Unrestricted kerbside on the carriageway is precisely that - unrestricted.

I don't think the bays are relevant but Mr Mustard has noted they don't in any case constitute a properly marked 2-up bay.

Is my take.

The counterfactual is what if you were 2-up on the footway but outside of markings. They would do you for footway parking...

Your link to a TMO doesn't work by the way.

Also note that Havering does not reoffer the discount even at rejection of informal challenge so this is your only chance to avail yourself of the discounted penalty.

mrmustard · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2026, 05:03:50 pm »

Stamfordman knows what he is doing, we are just looking at this in different ways but we agree on one thing, Havering Council are wrong.

The below is an extract from parking sign law, The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 which says you 'may' park on the footway.

This being Havering you can probably count on them shooting themselves in the foot and sending you a charge certificate later on before they are legally permitted to.

tincombe · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2026, 05:35:28 pm »

I can't open your TMO link either.

We all agree that Havering haven't got a leg to stand on.

It's a matter of approach.

IMO,

With respect to Mr M, the markings posted only apply to designated parking places(as the descriptions say..'parking place....' . They do not apply to footway parking exemptions. There isn't a prescribed size of footway parking bay because councils will differ in the extent to which they've lifted the ban according to local circumstances e.g. width of footway etc.

As regards the signs which do apply:

The footway bays apply only to exempt two-wheel up parking on the footway" -- is there an official reference for this statement? The TMO that I linked in the the first post doesn't explicitly mention it, is it implicitly understood because of something else?

Yes.

Item 12, Part 2 Sign Table of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regs:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7

'Vehicles may be parked partially on the verge or footway'.

Not 'must', 'may'.

I'm afraid this business of applicable signs is detailed.

If you look at the signs in the link and your posts, the format is sign with blue background on which there is a 'P' with a car underneath with 2 wheels up. This indicates an AREA in which parking on the footway is permitted. When this is conditional, as here, the sign has a 3rd section which specifies 'in marked bays only'.

These are NOT designated parking bays made under a local order, they are areas marked only on the footway to indicate the extent of areas where the statutory London-wide prohibition of parking on the footway has been lifted. They CANNOT give rise to 'parking outside markings..,' but, as per stamfordman, to 'parking on the footway' contraventions.

stamfordman · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2026, 07:45:00 pm »

Havering took itself off public Traffweb - I presume you got the map from an order document so would be good to get the proper link to this.

Your other case - which I hope you made reps for - is relevant because as I said you'd gtt a footway parking PCN for what we see in the pics below, and you did.

And you now know Havering won't offer you the discount on that one.

neverpaying · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2026, 12:27:52 pm »

Given my intention was to appeal, and that the discount is not re-offered, I've let the 14 day window lapse. I now have until 15/07 to send my representations.

I watched today as a CEO walked past a car parked on the carriageway in the exact same spot. I have also been told previously by a different CEO that the council policy is (correctly) to not give PCNs for it. So I am hopeful that the representation will be enough for Havering to recognise their mistake and cancel the PCN.

tincombe · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2026, 03:18:23 pm »

IMO, forget CEOs and who said or did what and who's seen what when, none of this goes to the central legal issue IMO, and simply lets them to side-step the matter.

Perhaps...

As the authority will see, I was parked wholly on a length of carriageway which was not marked. Despite this, I was issued with a PCN citing the contravention grounds of: 'Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space'. This contravention can only occur in the vicinity of a designated parking place, however there isn't one at the location.

I am therefore left to guess what possible problem the CEO saw with my lawful parking. As a 'Vehicles may be parked partially on the verge or footway' sign with the permitted variant 'In marked bays only' has been included in their evidence, I assume this has some relevance as regards the CEO's actions.

But it does not relate to the alleged contravention.

The sign indicates an area (my emphasis) in which parking on the footway or verge is permitted(again my emphasis).

It does not indicate a designated parking place, neither does it prohibit parking on the carriageway, it merely permits conditional parking on the footway.

I strongly suggest that the authority cancels this PCN now and takes the opportunity to instruct this, and possibly other, CEOs in the difference between discretionary parking on the footway pursuant to s15 Greater London Council(General Powers) Act 1974 and mandatory parking within a parking place designated under s32 or s45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984

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Author Topic: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb? (Read 226 times)

neverpaying

Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

stamfordman

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

tincombe

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

neverpaying

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

mrmustard

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

neverpaying

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

stamfordman

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

mrmustard

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

tincombe

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

stamfordman

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

neverpaying

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?

tincombe

Re: Havering, code 24 -- do I have to mount the kerb?