3. Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
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Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
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I am using a Vehicle Hire (under 6 months).

I was picking up a passenger, I did not realize that I am not allowed to stop here, which is in between some zigzag lines and a bus stop.

PCN Image Pg1 -

PCN Image Pg2 -

PCN Image Pg3 -

PCN Image Pg4 -


Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/YZuVYhzSSyHurkAZA
Street View: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Av1Xz1vBb39KSfUT6
« Last Edit: September 01, 2025, 01:01:45 am by hirerspcn »
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #1 on: »
Unless there's a fault in the paperwork it seems to be a another slam dunk case. The words BUS STOP in big letters on the road should give you clue along with the thick yellow line next to the kerb. This rule applies to virtually every bus stop in London.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #2 on: »
Here is part of the video - shows you were picking someone up but sadly on the bus stop clearway.

These are the rules - I think some non-clearway red route stops are OK but nearly all London council bus stops have a yellow clearway.

Private hire vehicles cannot stop at 'bus stop clearways' marked with a wide yellow line by the kerb. On red routes both taxis and private hire vehicles cannot stop at bus stops marked with a wide red line by the kerb. At other red route bus stops, taxi and private hire drivers should avoid stopping to avoid disruption to the bus network.


https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information#on-this-page-1

Also watch out for the red route in Redbridge as this isn't TFL and doesn't allow PHV although some adjudicators allow appeals.

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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #3 on: »
OP, to whom is the PCN addressed, you by name?

If so, then as you say it's hired then you can make reps on the grounds that you were never the owner. The only way in which hou could be considered the owner is if the registered keeper elected to make reps on the grounds that they are a vehicle hiring firm etc. But you're entitled to make reps because the authority haven't said in the PCN that it's been sent to you as the hirer neither have they included evidence that ownership was transferred correctly as per regulations.

In fact, we don't even know if the hire company are the registered keeper or whether they use the vehicle under a lease.
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on September 01, 2025, 02:22:02 pm
OP, to whom is the PCN addressed, you by name?
This is addressed to me by name and address.

Quote from: H C Andersen on September 01, 2025, 02:22:02 pm
If so, then as you say it's hired then you can make reps on the grounds that you were never the owner. The only way in which hou could be considered the owner is if the registered keeper elected to make reps on the grounds that they are a vehicle hiring firm etc. But you're entitled to make reps because the authority haven't said in the PCN that it's been sent to you as the hirer neither have they included evidence that ownership was transferred correctly as per regulations.

In fact, we don't even know if the hire company are the registered keeper or whether they use the vehicle under a lease.

If I do make reps based on that i was never the owner (which is true) couldn't the council just say that we have your hire agreement here, and it says you accept all liability.

The registered keeper did in fact make representations and transferred liability to me as per my hire agreement.
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #5 on: »
Any advise on this please. I total forgot about it  :-[
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #6 on: »
The registered keeper did in fact make representations and transferred liability to me as per my hire agreement.

How do you know, have you seen their representations, evidence in support* and, crucially, the authority's Notice of Acceptance?

My point stands. On the basis of the PCN which does not categorise your standing they are demanding a penalty. Irrespective of the contravention their power to demand a penalty is subject to them complying with strict conditions and IMO it is open to you to put them to proof regarding their compliance, it's not for you to research. And if they do, then they should re-offer the discount.

Up to you.

*- vehicle-hire firm” has the meaning given in section 66(8) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (hired vehicles);
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2546/schedule/2/made
“hiring agreement” has the meaning given in section 66(8) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (hired vehicles);






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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on September 15, 2025, 02:41:08 pm
The registered keeper did in fact make representations and transferred liability to me as per my hire agreement.

How do you know, have you seen their representations, evidence in support* and, crucially, the authority's Notice of Acceptance?


I have not, but the hire agreement states that i am responsible for any PCNs for this vehicle.

Quote from: H C Andersen on September 15, 2025, 02:41:08 pm

My point stands. On the basis of the PCN which does not categorise your standing they are demanding a penalty. Irrespective of the contravention their power to demand a penalty is subject to them complying with strict conditions and IMO it is open to you to put them to proof regarding their compliance, it's not for you to research. And if they do, then they should re-offer the discount.


Ok, when I appeal, will my only point be that I was never the vehicle owner?
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #8 on: »
I have not, but the hire agreement states that i am responsible for any PCNs for this vehicle.

That's as maybe, but this is not part of the enforcement process which I set out in detail in my last post. Being 'responsible for' could just mean that they pay penalties and then recharge the hirer.

My point stands: you are not the RK and may not be considered to be the owner unless the RK and authority comply with prescribed regulatory procedures.
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on September 15, 2025, 04:53:24 pm

That's as maybe, but this is not part of the enforcement process which I set out in detail in my last post. Being 'responsible for' could just mean that they pay penalties and then recharge the hirer.

My point stands: you are not the RK and may not be considered to be the owner unless the RK and authority comply with prescribed regulatory procedures.

My company does not pay any PCN charges except bus lane charges from Islington, other than that, they transfer liability to me in my own name and address, which i receive ~2weeks later.

Can i be considered the registered owner if i was the vehicles hirer at the time? Or does it always mean, who the vehicle is registered to?
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #10 on: »
I have already given you the answer: you do not know that liability has been transferred to you within regulatory procedures.

See page 13 here:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ETA%20Annual%20Report%202022%20-%202023.pdf

'..authorities have allowed transfer even when the required evidence has not been provided..' 

But if you think that in your case all strict regulatory procedures have been complied with, even without requiring proof...!
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #11 on: »


Should i ask my hire company what they have done/submitted, or send an appeal to Camden?
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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #12 on: »
IMO, make reps to Camden as I set out earlier.

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Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #13 on: »
Stopped partly in the white zig zags too.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Camden - CA-F Stopped on a restricted bus stop/stand, Eversholt Street
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on September 16, 2025, 09:12:53 pm
IMO, make reps to Camden as I set out earlier.




Draft attempt:

Dear Camden Council,

I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time. The vehicle was hired, and the PCN does not explain that it was sent to me as the hirer, nor does it include any documents showing that liability was transferred to me correctly.

For that reason, I ask that the PCN be cancelled.

Kind regards.
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