Author Topic: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages” (Read 2344 times)

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **on:** October 01, 2025, 01:44:24 am »

I live on an estate and have a valid parking permit for the estate.

There is an area for council garages where people park when there is no space in the main area that has marked bays. There is a sign stating permit holders only parking past this point which implies you can park in this area.

I have parked here for months without any issues, and so have other people, but I received a PCN this time for being “parked causing an obstruction”, and the location on the PCN being stated “Outside garages”

Link to pictures of how my car was parked: https://postimg.cc/gallery/NTY5HCh

Note that there was a van to the left of me originally but it had moved, I didn’t park there when the space to the left of me was empty.

I was told by others I was clearly blocking the entrance, but for 1) the area is very quiet and only cars go in and out so I am not blocking access for any vehicles. 2) The PCN does not state anything about being issued on the grounds of me blocking the entrance. 3) There is no definition as to where you can and cannot park in this area

I would really appreciate some help as to the way I can challenge this informally at first.

Enceladus · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2025, 03:03:17 am »

Please post up the PCN.

And please don't redact anything other than your name & address from documents where present, including the PCN. Leave everything else visible.

Don't use IMGUR. It doesn't work in the UK at the moment. Try https://imgbb.com/ instead. You can create a free of charge account.

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2025, 10:08:45 am »

https://ibb.co/jkTnB34h

Incandescent · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2025, 10:24:42 am »

I'm not sure they can enforce "obstruction" under the TMA 2004, but somebody on here will know, I'm sure.

stamfordman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2025, 11:10:09 am »

This is St Saviour Estate - where is this location on Google Maps?

I doubt Southwark has signed this off-street car park with any terms and we can see it has used an on-street permit holder sign at the entrance as we've seen with other estates.

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2025, 11:25:17 am »

Yes it is the estate you mention.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5JPKVaBZuXkeyy6D6

Enceladus · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2025, 11:25:33 am »

Quote from: Incandescent on October 01, 2025, 10:24:42 am

I'm not sure they can enforce "obstruction" under the TMA 2004, but somebody on here will know, I'm sure.

"92 - Parked causing an obstruction" is a contravention for off-street car-parks.

Incandescent · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2025, 11:34:19 am »

Quote from: Enceladus on October 01, 2025, 11:25:33 am

Quote from: Incandescent on October 01, 2025, 10:24:42 am
I'm not sure they can enforce "obstruction" under the TMA 2004, but somebody on here will know, I'm sure.
"92 - Parked causing an obstruction" is a contravention for off-street car-parks.

So this location has to be an off-street car park or the PCN is void.

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **Reply #8 on:** October 01, 2025, 11:35:40 am »

Does this count as off-street parking?

stamfordman · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2025, 12:13:31 pm »

The contravention is off-street and there are no terms displayed for the car park

Southwark fails to sign most of its estate car parks properly as per this tribunal case from yesterday.

I'll see if I can find the order. Obstruction of the entrance though could be serious if it prevented emergency services from entering.

-------

Case reference   2250449408
Appellant   xxxxxx
Authority   London Borough of Southwark
VRM   LG70RAX

PCN Details
PCN   JK16480718
Contravention date   29 May 2025
Contravention time   13:12:00
Contravention location   Kinglake Estate
Penalty amount   GBP 110.00
Contravention   Parked beyond the bay markings

Referral date   -

Decision Date   30 Sep 2025
Adjudicator   Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons   Mr xxxxx has attended the hearing today by video link.
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of not being parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space on Kinglake Estate.
Mr xxxx appeals because he says that he is a resident on the Estate and holds a valid resident’s permit for parking. He says that he returned home from work to find that there were no bay spaces. He says that he parked next to the tree where the car was causing no obstruction. This is confirmed by the CEO’s photographs.
Whilst the evidence shows that the car was outside of bay markings, I am allowing this appeal because the Council has provided no evidence of any signage warning residents that they must park only in the marked bays and that parking outside of a bay may result in the issue of a PCN.

Enceladus · « **Reply #10 on:** October 01, 2025, 12:18:56 pm »

Quote from: Incandescent on October 01, 2025, 11:34:19 am

Quote from: Enceladus on October 01, 2025, 11:25:33 am
Quote from: Incandescent on October 01, 2025, 10:24:42 am
I'm not sure they can enforce "obstruction" under the TMA 2004, but somebody on here will know, I'm sure.
"92 - Parked causing an obstruction" is a contravention for off-street car-parks.
So this location has to be an off-street car park or the PCN is void.

I imagine that there would need to be an off-street parking places order to enforce?
However the sign suggests that this is a permit parking area. But there doesn't seem to any permit identifier on the sign.

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **Reply #11 on:** October 01, 2025, 12:23:44 pm »

There is a permit identifier, it is just not visible in the pictures the CEO took. The permit identifier is “E-SS”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **Reply #12 on:** October 01, 2025, 12:36:54 pm »

Quote from: Enceladus on October 01, 2025, 12:18:56 pm

Quote from: Incandescent on October 01, 2025, 11:34:19 am
Quote from: Enceladus on October 01, 2025, 11:25:33 am
Quote from: Incandescent on October 01, 2025, 10:24:42 am
I'm not sure they can enforce "obstruction" under the TMA 2004, but somebody on here will know, I'm sure.
"92 - Parked causing an obstruction" is a contravention for off-street car-parks.
So this location has to be an off-street car park or the PCN is void.
I imagine that there would need to be an off-street parking places order to enforce?
However the sign suggests that this is a permit parking area. But there doesn't seem to any permit identifier on the sign.

The permit identifier is “E-SS” if that is what you’re talking about. It’s just not visible in the CEO’s pictures

stamfordman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 01, 2025, 02:27:19 pm »

The parent order says the contravention is made out where there are no parking bays, if there is indeed obstruction of free movement which there does not appear to be.

But the key is that there is nothing to tell you you are in a car park subject to conditions.

b Where parking bays are marked, all vehicles must be parked within the limits of a marked parking bay;

c Where no parking bays are marked, vehicles may park in any area other than an area indicated as being ‘no waiting at any time’ or a ‘restricted area’, provided that no vehicle may to be parked so as to obstruct the free movement of vehicles and pedestrians or access to any part of a housing estate road or housing estate car park or parking bay or entrance to premises in or adjacent to that housing estate road or housing estate car park;

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-60554-1852862

EvaporatedMilkCoffee · « **Reply #14 on:** October 01, 2025, 02:38:44 pm »

Quote from: stamfordman on October 01, 2025, 02:27:19 pm

The parent order says the contravention is made out where there are no parking bays, if there is indeed obstruction of free movement which there does not appear to be.

But the key is that there is nothing to tell you you are in a car park subject to conditions.

b Where parking bays are marked, all vehicles must be parked within the limits of a marked parking bay;

c Where no parking bays are marked, vehicles may park in any area other than an area indicated as being ‘no waiting at any time’ or a ‘restricted area’, provided that no vehicle may to be parked so as to obstruct the free movement of vehicles and pedestrians or access to any part of a housing estate road or housing estate car park or parking bay or entrance to premises in or adjacent to that housing estate road or housing estate car park;

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-60554-1852862

Can I expect to receive assistance in writing a draft appeal, or will I have to do this myself? I want to be able to present an articulate argument citing all the correct legislation so as to leave no gaps for the council to reject my appeal.

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Author Topic: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages” (Read 2344 times)

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

Enceladus

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

Incandescent

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

stamfordman

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

Enceladus

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

Incandescent

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

stamfordman

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

Enceladus

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

stamfordman

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”

EvaporatedMilkCoffee

Re: Council Issued PCN for “Parked causing an obstruction” Location “Outside Garages”