3. Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
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Hippocrates

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2024, 09:25:33 pm »
Yours should be the same.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
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ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2024, 09:52:11 pm »
I'm hoping so🤞
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Hippocrates

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2024, 10:55:10 pm »
Preparation not hope.  8)
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2024, 08:02:41 pm »
At todays date - 21st September, no sign of Order of Recovery and I'll now be away but will be checking with TEC.
I can get a neighbour to check my mail. If anything arrives in my absence is there anything in the paperwork I should get her to copy to me?
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Hippocrates

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2024, 09:00:00 pm »
Quote from: Haveringresident on September 21, 2024, 08:02:41 pm
At todays date - 21st September, no sign of Order of Recovery and I'll now be away but will be checking with TEC.
I can get a neighbour to check my mail. If anything arrives in my absence is there anything in the paperwork I should get her to copy to me?
Everything so we are aware of the dates.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2024, 06:33:32 pm »
Another month on - still no Order for Recovery!.  It's becoming a joke.  I have been phoning TEC regularly each week.
Any idea if there is a cut off point when I have to have had the Order?
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Incandescent

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2024, 09:27:25 pm »
Well, think on the bright side; the longer they wait before registering the debt, the more unfairly they are acting. A public authority given penal powers must act fairly, expeditiously, and in the public interest,  when exercising those powers.  So when you finally get to confront them at an adjudication, you can claim unfair practice by the authority.
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2025, 04:45:37 pm »
After enlisting the help of my local councillor as I've now reached the 6 month stage without the Order of Recovery, I finally received communication from the council.  I should receive the Order of Recovery by 17th January and have 21 days to file my representation against the PCN.

I would appreciate your help with the wording for the Order of Recovery.

Many thanks
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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2025, 04:57:36 pm »
Not quite right.  They send you an Order for Recovery and then you respond with the relevant statement form, which depends on what Act the PCN was served under. So for you, it will be a Statutory Declaration (Form PE3) because the Act on the PCN is the LLA & TfL Act 2003.
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2025, 06:39:32 pm »
I've had a quick look at the PE3 and I believe the box that I would tick  would be I made representation ............etc but did not receive a rejection notice.

I would still need to give a reason for appeal the PCN   
Is this also correct?  - get it signed before a commissioner of oaths, such as a solicitor, Justice of the Peace, or a County Court officer?
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Incandescent

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2025, 07:37:29 pm »
Quote from: Haveringresident on January 10, 2025, 06:39:32 pm
I've had a quick look at the PE3 and I believe the box that I would tick  would be I made representation ............etc but did not receive a rejection notice.

I would still need to give a reason for appeal the PCN 
Is this also correct?  - get it signed before a commissioner of oaths, such as a solicitor, Justice of the Peace, or a County Court officer?
What you are doing has absolutely nothing to do with the alleged contravention on the PCN itself. All you are doing is telling TEC that you followed the process by submitting representations, but received no notice of rejection. TEC then order the CC and OfR to be cancelled and the matter reverts to the PCN stage. AS you submitted reps the council must pass the matter to the adjudicator for a decision.
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2025, 08:51:21 pm »
Thanks.
I'll wait for it to come through and ask for further advice
Not really sure why it needs to be signed off by a solicitor etc though.
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H C Andersen

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2025, 09:17:52 pm »
IMO,


(2)The statutory declaration must state that the person making it—

(a)did not receive the penalty charge notice in question;

(b)made representations to the enforcing authority under paragraph 1 above but did not receive a notice of rejection from that authority; or

(c)appealed to a traffic adjudicator under paragraph 4 above against the rejection by that authority of representations made by him under paragraph 1 above but had no response to the appeal.

served.

(10)Where—

(a)sub-paragraph (7) above applies; and

(b)the order of the court is deemed to have been revoked under sub-paragraph (8) above,
...
(11)..a declaration has been served under sub-paragraph (2)(b) or (c) above, the enforcing authority shall refer the case to the traffic adjudicator who may give such direction as he considers appropriate.

When your SD is accepted by TEC and the CC and OfR cancelled (under the grounds that you made reps but did not receive a response) then the burden is on the authority. The matter does not revert to the PCN stage.
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2025, 06:21:20 pm »
ORDER OF RECOVERY RECEIVED
Sorry - trying to keep as short as poss.

Outlining details in brief so far, as I’ve now received the Order of Recovery (after waiting six months!)
Date of PCN 7 June 2024

Up until now this is what has been advised (this may not apply at this stage as I believe I have to say that I made representation)

“The website ground along gives you an almost certain win as the grounds listed on the council website are all wrong: ground F, G and H on the council website are all inapplicable. Add this with the council's likely inability to supply a copy of your video to the tribunal, and you've got them on two grounds (if they can't supply a copy of the video you send with the representations, then that's a failure to supply a true copy of the representations and that alone will win the day)”.

Above done & sent 24hr tracked & signed on 3 July (Royal Mail didn’t deliver & was lost- taken up with RM).
9 July hand delivered letter & other sets of CD’s to council. 
Video evidence of arriving and handing over. 
Not received and now say it is lost!!

Received letter 22 July – no representation – increased charge of £195

Regularly contacted TEC on a weekly /10 days basis until I finally received a response from the council 10 January, that I should receive Order of Recovery by 17 January.

Advised: “TEC then order the CC and OfR to be cancelled and the matter reverts to the PCN stage. AS you submitted reps the council must pass the matter to the adjudicator for a decision”.

Received today so I am assuming I send the PE3 saying I made representation with all the details I stated about RM and hand delivery etc.
I then have to get it signed by a solicitor etc and send the signed form to TEC in Northampton.
 
Signed and tracked again?

Thanks again
« Last Edit: January 18, 2025, 10:37:37 pm by Haveringresident »
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 08:47:26 pm »
Sorry - know you guys are very busy - need to submit Order or Recovery for PE3 - " I made representations etc.... and disn't wwant to mess up the wording

Ta
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