Author Topic: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)  (Read 953 times)

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Received a PCN from Westminster for failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign. I got into a little altercation with who seemed like the caretaker for a residential building on the street just before the signal who was arguing that I couldn't stop there. I didn't realise there was a forward sign on the traffic light.
Not much of an excuse but those are the events that took place that day.
Are there any grounds on which I can make an appeal?

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« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 10:31:51 pm by traz »

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Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #1 on: »
So you turned left against a straight ahead arrow? The sign isn't shown from that view and maybe some cases on tribunal that could help.

I seem to recall a case on the old forum here.


Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #2 on: »
That's right I tuned left against a straight ahead arrow. Yes the sign isn't visible in the clip.
How would I find those cases that could help? Anything I could search on the forum?

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #3 on: »
The problem you've got is that if your main point in the appeal is that the video doesn't show the sign, (like a helluva lot of other videos we see), the council can present photos of the sign in their evidence pack. In addition, the adjudicator can look at GSV same as us and see the sign. OK, the GSV view is for a particular month and year, but the civil law test of "on the balance of probabilities" applies, NOT "beyond all reasonable doubt, (the criminal law test).

The above will only be tested at London Tribunals as the council will just refuse your reps.

So my view is you need to find something else.

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #4 on: »
I made an appeal to Westminster council. They did not send a notice of rejection. Instead they issued me with a charge certificate (linked below). I then received 2 letters from Marston Recovery (linked below). Am I correct in understanding that I need to fill out a PE3 form and send it to TEC?
Also in the TEC form where it asks for the applicant, that would be City of Westminster not myself, right?
This is so strange because this is the second time this has happened to me. Previously TFL did this so I filled out a PE3 form and now Westminster council.

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« Last Edit: April 23, 2025, 12:11:29 pm by traz »

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #5 on: »
There's only one letter from Marston you've posted and it's out of order as it's a pre debt registration letter.

What else is there?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2025, 02:06:42 pm by stamfordman »

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #6 on: »
I received two letters from marston recovery. These letters came with a two day gap.

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Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #7 on: »
So you've had two of these - this is outrageous. I really don't think Westminster has any authority to hound people at charge certificate stage with a bailiff.

Call the Traffic Enforcement Centre tomorrow and see if the debt has been registered against the PCN. Not getting a rejection gives you an automatic referral to the tribunal - did you make reps as per their instructions?

Have they got the right name and address.


Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #8 on: »
Okay, thank you I will call Traffic Enforcement Centre tomorrow.
Yes I made representation - how good I don't know but I still made representation.
The names and address is right on all the letters.

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #9 on: »
I called the TEC and they said it is currently not registered with them.

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #10 on: »
Keep checking with TEC - say again in 2 weeks. You don't want to miss the order for recovery and you don't need it to file a statutory declaration that you didn't get the rejection, only that you know it's been raised. 

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #11 on: »
okay thanks. I'll check again next week. Would it be okay if someone can explain a little bit on what's happening.
So I'm waiting for the order of recovery to be registered with the TEC and then I will file a PE3 stating I did not receive the notice of rejection. Is that right?

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #12 on: »
okay thanks. I'll check again next week. Would it be okay if someone can explain a little bit on what's happening.
So I'm waiting for the order of recovery to be registered with the TEC and then I will file a PE3 stating I did not receive the notice of rejection. Is that right?
This guide explains it all.>

https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #13 on: »
Received another letter from Marston Recovery today. This is the third letter.

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« Last Edit: April 28, 2025, 08:26:09 pm by traz »

Re: City of Westminster - failing to drive in the direction show (32 d)
« Reply #14 on: »
Please post the others.
These letters would seem to my eye to be illegal intimidation. Certainly they are outside the legal process. We have seen this sort of thing before from other London councils who clearly see it as a clever wheeze to get the money in and avoid the Traffic Enforcement Centre process. Many people will be scared and pay-up, which is what they want.

The bottom line is that no debt exists until the PCN is registered at TEC.