Author Topic: BRENT COUNCIL car TOWED and PCN issues for only one wheel in front of dropped curb??!!!  (Read 912 times)

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( BRENT COUNCIL - LOCATION O/S NO 38) Contravention code - 27.
Today I had to collect my car from the pound AND pay a PCN after having parked one wheel over dropped curb. I was not obstructed access into or out of the nearby driveway and raised part of the curb was so small that it was impossible to have parked without a part of the car overhanging on either side of the curb. There was a sign saying any illegally parked car would be removed but i didn't see the illegality of my parking. I understand the parking fine of £65 but £200 for the removal of the car just seems absurd. There was no obstruction caused. I have attached pictures and would appreciate any help.





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« Last Edit: April 27, 2024, 05:21:03 pm by cp8759 »

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Photos show you as totally bang-to-rights, frankly. However, I'm surprised you were towed; normally these offences just get a PCN.
POst up the documents you got at the pound, incl the PCN, all sides.

@kaybee5 the law (and specifically section 86 of the Traffic Management Act 2004) does not require there to be any obstruction, the law simply says it's a contravention for your car to be parked adjacent to a dropped kerb, which you car blatantly was.

As above, please post up the PCN (both sides in full) and all the paperwork you were given at the car pound, I think we're going to have to try and find a technical appeal for this one.

However there is no reason not to pursue this to the tribunal, because you've paid all that there is to pay so you cannot end up any worse off by taking this to adjudication.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hi. Thank you both for your responses. I have attached pics of the PCN and docs. I'd like to mention that the raised part of the curb i parked against would have been impossible to park without covering a part of either side's dropped curb. Considering my parking was 'friendly' I don't think a removal was necessary. My car is quite small and any other car would have issues parking against that curb without facing fines. in this case i think there should have been yellow lines to prevent this from happening to others but since there wasn't... Would this sort of argument hold up in court at all?

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It's not a court. It's a tribunal. But no that argument is not really any help.

That potential parking area is small, but many spaces are too small for many vehicles. You could probably have fitted a motorbike in there for example.




OP, deep breath....pl stop trying to justify or minimise the contravention. You are bang-to-rights. It's a statutory prohibition, therefore no signs/markings required and you're presumed to know this by virtue of holding a driving licence. It's a hard world, but dancing around these issues merely complicates matters and hinders progress and analysis.

But whereas this disposes of the contravention, it doesn't deal with why remove the vehicle. To look into this I suggest you get hold of the council's policy (AKA Guidelines) regarding removal - which they are required to produce and publish so getting it shouldn't be difficult. (the Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance refers).

There are several other technical elements to be checked as mentioned by others, so pl post all the docs which were provided at the car pound when the car was collected on 22 Apr.

Thank you all for your responses. Here are the rest of the documents provided to me at the time of collection from the pound. I was unable to upload these before due to file size restrictions. These along with the others uploaded in my previous reply are everything i received. Really appreciate the responses

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They've referred to the wrong regs and IMO more importantly have referred you to the wrong regs.

For example, if you go to the 2007 Regs then you would be referring to the wrong regs because they've been revoked!

Instead:

2) A “procedural impropriety” means a failure by an enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by—

(a)the TMA 2004,

(b)the 2022 General Regulations, or

(c)these [2022] Regulations,

in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge or other sum.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/2

..and it's a kerb, not a curb!
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Taken from Brent council policy London Borough of Brent Parking Policy 2020 :

 https://www.brent.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/parking-policy-2020

3.160 " White  line  markings  are  advisory  and  are  intended  to  act  as  a  deterrent  to thoughtless parking. However, enforcement is possible in some circumstances. The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 (section 14) allows the Council  to  issue  Penalty  Charge  Notices  to,  or  remove,  vehicles  parked  across dropped  footways.  This  includes  places  where  the  footway  is  dropped  to  allow pedestrians to cross the road more easily. 3.161In cases where a dropped footway is there to provide access to a driveway which is for  individual  residential  premises  (and  not  a  business  or  shared  with  other premises),  then  enforcement  action  can  only  be taken  when  the  occupier  of  the premises requests the local authority to do so. This means that it is not an offence for  a  residential  occupier  to  park  across  his  or  her  own  driveway.  The  Council operates  a  telephone  service between  the  hours  of  8am  and  10pm  (except Christmas Day) which allows residents to ask for the removal of a vehicle which is blocking their driveway."

6.27 "The  Council  provides  a  vehicle  removal  service. In  practice,  removal  is  focused  on  more  serious offences,  such  as obstructive  parking which  affects road  safety or creates traffic  congestion. Avehicle  is  eligible for  removal  if  it  remains  in  a pay  and  display or shared use bay for more than 30 minutes after a PCN has been issued. If  a vehicle is  involved  in  persistent  contraventions,  and has  three  or  more  PCNs outstanding, the removal period may be reduced to 15 minutes. In the case of other types  of  parking  offence  (such  as  obstructive  parking  on  a  yellow  line),  the  vehicle may be removed immediately."

Hi. Thank you for noticing this. How would I be able to use this in an appeal?

They've referred to the wrong regs and IMO more importantly have referred you to the wrong regs.

For example, if you go to the 2007 Regs then you would be referring to the wrong regs because they've been revoked!

Instead:

2) A “procedural impropriety” means a failure by an enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by—

(a)the TMA 2004,

(b)the 2022 General Regulations, or

(c)these [2022] Regulations,

in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge or other sum.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/2

..and it's a kerb, not a curb!

As far as I can see, HCA has pointed you to a "procedural impropriety". This is one of the statutory grounds for an appeal at the adjudicators. But first you must submit representations to the council.

We have to deal with the law as it is, not as you would like it to be. As far as the law is concerned you're banged-to-right on the contravention and that's the end of that. However there are other grounds of appeal available, and one has been identified by HCA.

Here is a draft you can use:

Dear London Borough of Brent,

I challenge this penalty charge on the ground of a procedural impropriety. Regulation 11(2) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 provides that upon being required to pay the penalty charge, I should have been immediately been informed of my rights under regulations 11(3) and 11(4), but the relevant statutory information was not provided to me.

In light of this procedural impropriety, the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send the representations via email, you should get an automated acknowledgement.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I've drafted a much longer version but will keep because cp's draft should be sufficient.

Suffice to say that:
Their policy is defective because it is based upon statutory guidance issued in 2015 whereas the current version is Oct 2022. The council must have regard to the current guidance but clearly can't if they rely on their out-of-date policy which does not reflect the guidance's references to removal.

In addition, the policy draws upon repealed legislation for the council's power to issue PCNs for parking at access ways - and remove vehicles which was never a power under that Act anyway!

And them misleading you with their references to revoked 2007 Regs! 

What a procedural shambles.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2024, 09:19:33 am by H C Andersen »

Dear both CPA and HC Anderson.
I greatly appreciate your help and drafts. I have since submitted cp's draft to the council as an appeal. However, this procedural impropriety covers the PCN but the removal charge is what I am guessing will be the hardest to challenge (PCN = £65, removal fee = £200). Could either of you please draft an appeal that covers the removal fee too?



If the PCN is cancelled, then the tow charges must be refunded