Author Topic: BUCKINGHAMSHIRE COUNCIL (Little Chalfont) - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street - Westwood Drive  (Read 484 times)

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Hello,

I am very new to this sort of thing; I would really appreciate some assistance.

I parked in a road in Little Chalfont where I have been parking on and off for over 20 years. There was nothing that had obviously changed: no lines of any description on the road and no signs present/near to where I parked; I returned to find a PCN from Buckinghamshire Council.

It turned out that, during lockdown, the council extended the parking restrictions that have been present throughout the village of Little Chalfont (in the vicinity of the station - between 1100 and 1200 hours) to include the road where I parked, but decided not to/couldn't be bothered to extend the yellow lines that everyone associates with the restrictions in the area.

This means that anyone coming from the direction I did enters a road where the single/double yellows stop and there is nothing to suggest that the situation has been altered, except a single sign about 50m down the road (where I did not even drive).

The response I have had from the council is that there is no legal requirement for a yellow line to be present, as there is an 'entering restricted parking zone' sign on an adjacent road (where single/double yellows ARE present). But one naturally assumes that the restricted parking zone sign (which is present on one side of the road only) works in conjunction with the yellow lines (as has always been the case in the area) and, therefore, if the yellow lines stop on entering the road where I parked, there is not a single sign at the entrance to the unlined road, and there is NOTHING to make one go looking for the one sign much further down the road, how enforceable/legal is what they are doing ?!

Any/all advice gratefully received...

PB

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Well, here's the sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bTdD2oTLDRumJFvD9
So where were you parked along Westwood Drive ?

Only the one sign is rather naughty, because if you approad from the west direction along Elizabeth Avenu the sign is barely visible. Is this the direction you approached ?

It seems pretty clear that the residents of Westwood Avenue have got fed up with commuters using the railway station parking on their territory. Are you one of these commuters ? The restriction is designed to stop commuter parking with the short restriction time of one hour; this being quite common in London outer suburbia. Google Street View shows the sign in April 2019, over four years ago, so it's been there some time.

As far as I can see there isn't a lot you can appeal on, other than there being only a single sign, unless the TRO for the restriction is badly written. If you were visiting somebody along that road, I'm surprised they didn't alert you to the restriction.

Thanks for the input.

I did not enter from that end of Westwood Drive but yes, there IS one of those signs at the other end as well.  The sign on the other side is much more recent but my objection still stands: the single yellow lines that have been there for years - and have always been accompanied by regular plates on posts detailing the restriction - stopped before the road that I parked in and so I could, and do, quite legitimately claim that I thought the restriction applied only to one part of Westwood Drive (and the whole of Farm Close) where the lines and signs are clear.  It really does smack of being most underhand.

I have some dashcam footage of the route I took, if that's any good - I just need to work out how to post it...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2023, 02:41:50 pm by namyeknoM »

Upload to youtube and posting a link is a common method. Just remember to make it public.


It should if you make it public which I don't think it is yet.

At the moment one needs to request access.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2023, 03:30:27 pm by slapdash »

Oh dear... I thought I had set it to "anyone with a link" but I will look again... HHHmmm...

Sorry - done now...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2023, 03:41:03 pm by namyeknoM »

OP, do you know what restriction is conveyed by the Restricted Parking Zone sign? I think this should be your starting point.

'restricted parking zone”
   an area—
(a)into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been indicated by a sign which includes the symbol and legend at item 2 of the sign table in Part 3 of Schedule *5; and
(b)in which none of the road markings at items 1 to 4 of the sign table in Part 4 of Schedule 7 * has been placed.


Sadly, not knowing the meaning is not a defence.

*- indicating no waiting.

In short, it's like a CPZ except the council may dispense without yellow lines. 

Would you pl post the reverse of the PCN so we can check for regulatory conformity.

Yes, I understand what you are saying - but it sure is more than a little 'dodgy' what they have done.  And it certainly is not unreasonable for me to make the assumption that I did, given that the situation in the whole rest of the village (a place with which I am more than a little familiar) is different.  It is unfair - and wrong - to expect me to go looking for signs on an unlined part of road when there was nothing at the entrance to that section of the road - and only ONE sign on ONE side in the middle of a long stretch of the road.  It is incredibly frustrating for someone who is always so careful where he parks so as not to annoy anyone or fall foul of any regulations.

The argument you are making is that I did not HAVE to go looking for any signs, because everything I needed was at the entrance to Westwood Drive !  But - at the risk of repeating myself - it is perfectly reasonable to me to assume that that restriction did not extend to the part where I parked, that was different in lineage AND signage from ALL the rest of the area...

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I agree that the signage is confusing. A yellow line is just as much a sign as the sign on the pole at the beginning of the road.  The council should have removed the yellow lines in order to comply with the regulations that define an
RPZ

HCA posted the clause, and I repeat it here, emphasising the relevant requirement: -

'restricted parking zone”
  an area—
(a)into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been indicated by a sign which includes the symbol and legend at item 2 of the sign table in Part 3 of Schedule *5; and
(b)in which none of the road markings at items 1 to 4 of the sign table in Part 4 of Schedule 7 * has been placed.

but the road markings have been placed there !  So how can it be an RPZ ? This is what I would put in front of an adjudicator. The word "and" is crucial. both (a) and (b) must be followed; the council has not legally defined the RPZ.

Appreciated.  Thanks...

(And it's a small point, but I find the wording on the PCN ambiguous.  Surely it should read 'parked in a restricted street during PROSCRIBED hours' and not "prescribed hours".  I don't suppose it matters but it seems odd to me...)

(And it's a small point, but I find the wording on the PCN ambiguous.  Surely it should read 'parked in a restricted street during PROSCRIBED hours' and not "prescribed hours".  I don't suppose it matters but it seems odd to me...)

I totally agree, but prescribed hours is the invariable form -perhaps short for'prescribed hours of No Parking'???

For the benefit of anyone else who happens to be searching this forum about a very similar - or, better still, the identical - issue, I would like you to know that I have won the appeal to have the PCN overturned. Thanks to all...

PB

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For the benefit of anyone else who happens to be searching this forum about a very similar - or, better still, the identical - issue, I would like you to know that I have won the appeal to have the PCN overturned. Thanks to all...

PB
Could you post the full judgment, please. Blank your name out if you wish. We need to see the adjudicators thinking. Sometimes they decide based on something completely different to what the appellant puts forward !