Author Topic: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road  (Read 677 times)

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Martyn21uk

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Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« on: October 09, 2023, 03:04:18 pm »
Transferring this over from Pepipoo as it looks like it is going to outlast that site!


Original Post 11th July 2023

I'm happy to pay up if I'm as banged to rights as it looks. But always good to check I am not missing anything ahead of paying up...

Video is avaliable here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMe_ihSirsA





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Martyn21uk

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2023, 03:05:01 pm »
Schofeldt replied 11th July 2023



Do not pay this at all as they still do not have a proper VCA certificate. I am more than happy to represent you.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...iew=getlastpost

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...authorities.ods

If they persist and force you to the Tribunal, costs will almost certainly be a possibility.

Draft representations:

Dear Sirs

Ref: PCN..................VRM.........................

I put you to strict proof that you possess a valid VCA certificate for your camera to satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the London Tribunal provided at Para. 7 (2) of Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended).

Unless you can do so, then the PCN must be cancelled forthwith since any video evidence is inadmissible as has already been determined in many cases and one key case against viz. 2220486482 Davy Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing.

Yours

Martyn21uk

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2023, 03:05:55 pm »
Schofeldt added on the 10th August


https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook...&reserved=0

They haven't even applied for a new certificate nor has their camera manufacturer.

Martyn21uk

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2023, 03:07:30 pm »
Fast forward to last Friday

So Bromley have rejected my appeal as per the below.

Unbeknownst to me, they submitted a FOI request on my behalf which generated some unsolicited emails from "One Trust". I attach the responses from that as well. The link referred to in the PDF is https://tinyurl.com/bdcur7z3

Views welcomed!






cp8759

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2023, 10:47:31 pm »
Please give us a link to the location on google street view. There is a further camera argument that they haven't seen coming...
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order


cp8759

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2023, 06:02:25 pm »
I'll do some digging into the make and model of the camera, in the meantime please let us know when you get the enforcement notice.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2023, 09:16:22 am »
This is a mess.  My detailed records show that their new certificate is valid from 9th August 2023.  VCA ref: EDG077151 Letter Date: 22nd August.  Device: Videalert Rapidly Deployable Server (RDS) system.

Bromley was the last but one to obtain a new certificate.  Hackney was the other.

I believe I am taking care of this one.  I will send the certificate to the op and cp by e mail.

Just wait for the Enforcement Notice.

VCA have written on 10th July that no LLA Certificate had been issued or acknowledgement letter.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 09:30:42 am by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

Martyn21uk

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2023, 09:44:22 am »
Yesterday I received the Notice of Enforcement as below.  Nothing jumps out as being amiss in here but please do let me know if there is.  Could you please help advise on what I need to submit in appeal?






cp8759

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2023, 08:26:03 pm »
Hippocrates might have some ideas but looking at the correspondence this came to me:

Dear London Borough of Bromley,

I note your letter of 3 October has an entire section titled "Going forward", but I disagree and think it would be best to go backwards. I therefore require you to treat my informal representations as my formal representations.

Yours faithfully,


In the meantime I've had confirmation that the camera is an AXIS Q1765-LE Network Camera.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 08:28:03 pm by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2023, 09:01:41 am »
I have e mailed you both.  Also, I have checked the Govt. website.  The response received from their FOIR department is wrong.  But we can use it.  The effective date is 9th August.

I suggest: I rely upon my informal representations which I require you to regard as my formal representations against the Enforcement Notice.   The alleged contravention did not occur as, at the time, your VCA certificate did not satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal.

Please cancel the PCN and EN forthwith.  If you do not agree to do so, my representative will take the matter to adjudication.

Yours faithfully


There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

Hippocrates

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2023, 09:18:53 am »
Hippocrates might have some ideas but looking at the correspondence this came to me:

Dear London Borough of Bromley,

I note your letter of 3 October has an entire section titled "Going forward", but I disagree and think it would be best to go backwards. I therefore require you to treat my informal representations as my formal representations.

Yours faithfully,


In the meantime I've had confirmation that the camera is an AXIS Q1765-LE Network Camera.

I like the first sentence too, to be included!
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

Hippocrates

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2023, 12:34:59 pm »
The deemed date of service is 31st October.  Therefore, the deadline is Monday 27th November.  I suggest we wait until we receive replies.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2023, 01:12:13 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

Martyn21uk

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2023, 02:50:53 pm »
Hi, our deadline of Monday is fast approaching.  I have had my response on the FOI, did you get anything back from your emails Hippocrates?

Also, due to personal circumstances, I am not currently in my marital home so I am a little bit nervous about missing anything in the post.  I have post re-direction set up but from experience it is not always 100%.

I think we are sticking to the response as below?

Dear London Borough of Bromley,

I note your letter of 3 October has an entire section titled "Going forward", but I disagree and think it would be best to go backwards. I therefore rely upon my informal representations which I require you to regard as my formal representations against the Enforcement Notice.   The alleged contravention did not occur as, at the time, your VCA certificate did not satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal.

Yours faithfully,

Hippocrates

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Re: Bromley Code 34J Being in a Bus Lane, Widmore Road
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2023, 05:56:42 pm »
I would wait until Friday in view of your personal circumstances;  however, I suggest this:

Dear London Borough of Bromley,

I note your letter of 3 October has an entire section titled "Going forward", but I disagree and think it would be best to go backwards. I therefore rely upon my informal representations which I require you to regard as my formal representations against the Enforcement Notice.  The alleged contravention did not occur as, at the time, your VCA certificate did not satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal.

I am reliably informed by the VCA that your certificate is valid only from the effective date of 9th August.  Therefore, you must cancel the PCN and EN.  Should you not agree, I will not hesitate to take the matter to adjudication.

Yours
« Last Edit: November 22, 2023, 06:03:48 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"
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