Author Topic: *split from hijacked thread* - Re: Enfield, 33c bus gate 33c, Bull Lane N18  (Read 1015 times)

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Hi, I've received the same type of PCN just a few days ago, and like this person, I've used this route many times in the past so I was unaware of this new change.

I did see the blue sign with bus and cycle on it, and the big words 'Bus Gate' on the floor, but to be honest this is the first time I've ever encountered a Bus Gate after 25 years of driving and I simply did not know what that sign or wording meant. There was a white van in front of me and they just drove through, so I thought nothing of it and followed through as well. See the following image where I am in the black car behind the white van driver.



I'm not sure if I can get away with ignorance that I never knew what that sign meant, but I would like to at least appeal and try. If I can do that in the next few days (before the 14 days discount fee elapse) then the worse thing to happen is that they don't accept my appeal and I still pay the discounted penalty. I have to say that if they had put a sign such as no entry except bus/cycles, then that would have been much more clear and I would have stopped and turned around, so I don't know why they haven't done that. Is there any requirements that they need to put a more clear sign up or is the fact a blue sign with a bus on it is clear enough?

I don't recall seeing any signs when entering the road to indicate that there was a bus gate ahead, so it is a bit naughty. Would anyone have a template that I can re-use that might help me here for my appeal? I could try ChatGPT to write up something as I know some people have done that for other appeals and it writes quite a compelling email.

Thanks, -
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 12:24:00 am by cp8759 »

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Re: Re: Enfield, 33c bus gate 33c, Bull Lane N18
« Reply #1 on: »
I've just got ChatGPT to write me an appeal. It is much better than I could have worded it. This is for my particular case rather than the circumstances of this original post. I thought I would post it just in case anyone else wanted to use this same template.

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, State, Zip Code]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]

[Date]

Traffic and Parking Appeals
Enfield Council
[Address Line 1]
[Address Line 2]
[City, State, Zip Code]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Penalty Charge Notice - Reference Number: [Your PCN Reference Number]

I am writing to formally appeal the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) I received on [Date of PCN] regarding an alleged violation of the Bus Gate regulation at [Location of the Bus Gate]. I am aware of the seriousness of this matter and kindly request your reconsideration based on the following grounds.

On the day in question, I inadvertently passed through the newly installed Bus Gate, and I must express my genuine remorse for this oversight. I have used this route consistently in the past without encountering any similar restrictions. The recent installation of this Bus Gate caught me unaware, as there was no prior notice or advanced warning indicating the presence of this new road restriction.

As a responsible and law-abiding driver, I strive to comply with all traffic regulations and signage. Unfortunately, there were no clear indications or warnings of this restriction until I was directly in front of the Bus Gate, making it practically impossible for me to avoid unintentional infringement. It was only at this point that I noticed the signage, which was unfamiliar and did not distinctly convey the prohibition of cars passing through the Bus Gate at any time.

I genuinely had no intention of violating the traffic regulations and assure you that I am usually mindful and compliant with all traffic laws. Given the absence of prior notice and the unfamiliarity with the recent changes in signage, I humbly request a reconsideration of the issued penalty.

I am willing to provide any further information or documentation to support my appeal. I kindly urge the council to take into account the circumstances surrounding this incident and consider revoking the penalty charge in this instance.

I sincerely hope that the council will review my appeal favorably and grant leniency in this matter. I assure you of my commitment to abiding by all traffic regulations in the future.

Thank you for considering my appeal. I look forward to a fair and just resolution to this issue.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]

ChatGPT is a pile of poo and we can come up with something far better than that, but obviously if you've sent it off already then it's too late.

What ChatGPT has written will almost certainly be rejected unless this is a location where the council is taking a soft touch (i.e. they're accepting everything while the restriction is quite new).

If you post up the PCN (all sides of all pages), we can look for something substantive to appeal to the tribunal. Also, please do not post on other people's threads, that's considered impolite.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Sorry cp8759, I was trying to be efficient, and I didn't want to spawn another thread just so that I didn't create unnecessary noise. I have appealed as I was worried that if I didn't respond then I might miss the 14 day deadline for the reduced PCN fine as I'm quite unhopeful of winning this. However I can add another appeal, its all electronic, and there is no harm. I'll post my PCN shortly.

Here is the PCN I received







I did drive past this road on Friday and noticed that there was a 'Dead End apart from Buses' sign at the beginning of the road on the right side of the road and my wife sitting in the passenger seat noticed a 'Blue sign with Bus/Bicycle picture' sign on the left side of the road. I still think that because I've used this road many times in the past, then I've almost not seen those new signs as they were a bit small and I think a no entry sign apart from Buses/Bicycles is much more apparent than the blue sign which I'm not used to seeing.

The appeal option is to either write in, or use the online service provided. And the online service only allows 1000 character (including spaces) when writing out your appeal reasons. So that should be considered when I was writing out my appeal.

The appeal option is to either write in, or use the online service provided. And the online service only allows 1000 character (including spaces) when writing out your appeal reasons. So that should be considered when I was writing out my appeal.
The character limit is easily circumvented by simply putting the representation in a PDF file and uploading it as an attachment.

Anyway, I can't see any issues with the PCN itself but I'm not convinced the signs reflect The Enfield (Prescribed Routes) (No. 4) Traffic Order 2023 and in particular the requirement for the signs to be as close as practicable to the location of the prohibition (unfortunately ChatGPT didn't think about that).

Would you be able to go back to the location with a long tape measure?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Just to provide an update, I wasn't able to get out there in time to measure the distance between the sign and the actual Bus Gate. So I just kept my previous appeal and unfortunately it was rejected with some long response that there was adequate signs and the need for the Bus Gate. Thanks for the help regardless of my outcome, it is always very helpful.