Author Topic: Brent - Code 16, Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual or physical permit  (Read 746 times)

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No PCN's for years and then two in a week!
This time I am at fault but seeing if there is a way around it. I parked in a residents bay with the intention of getting a visitors permit from the owner of the house. The owner invited me in to get the permit as her baby had just awoken but she took ages to find them and by the time she did I went out to a PCN. I saw the officer leave so just missed them. In fact I parked at 10.05 so it was really unlucky.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wi3xVKo918158JKK9


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Hi. Can anyone help on this one?

Hi. Can anyone help on this one?
Time is always allowed to get a parking ticket or permit, or else nobody could park legally ! However, your time to get a permit was rather extended, but in my view doesn't alter the above. So you should submit reps based on your narrative here. Post up their response when you get it, at which point further advice can be given whether to pay-up or appeal.


Where is the Visitor's Permit which you then placed in the car?

Don't read into the CEO's actions any intent beyond what they reasonably did having regard to the facts which were that a car was parked in a permit bay without displaying the necessary valid permit. They had no idea where you were or what you were doing. Informal reps is your chance to add these details.

You already know the key issue which is that while the driver is allowed time to obtain a permit, this must be no more than necessary in the circumstances and you must do all that can reasonably be expected of you to take your car out of contravention as quickly as you can.

Council facts: at least 8 mins. observation.
Your facts: A bit thin.

You were or were not expected; you parked at the location, which was where in relation to the premises being visited; you took ** minutes to reach the premises and then a further ** for them to find the permit (presumably physical)
which you completed when you returned to the car?

And here is the permit duly completed! 

@Nick325i I have requested the traffic management order, but from your narrative you have a viable appeal in any event.

Can you please give a bit more detail about the search for the permit? Did the house owner go through cupboards and drawers, did they go to different rooms, upstairs etc? How long did it take to fill in the permit once they'd found it?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

The house owner had to attend to her crying baby that just woke up. I thought it best to maybe stay outside and keep an eye out but she invited me in to get the permit which was in the kitchen. Then she took a couple of minutes with the baby, came into the kitchen and was rummaging through drawers before finally remembering she had left the permits by the front door!

It didnt help that I was on a single crutch that week due to hurting my Achilles in football so wasn't that mobile.

@Nick325i here you go:

Dear London Borough of Brent,

I dispute liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. At the time of parking I was visiting my friend (insert full name) who resides at (insert full address and postcode).

When I parked my car I immediately went to my friend's house to obtain a visitor's permit, though I was on a single crutch that week due to hurting my Achilles during football so I wasn't as mobile as I normally would have been.

When I got to the house I was going to wait outside while she fetched a permit, so that I could speak to the CEO and explain the circumstances if I saw one approach the car, however she invited me in to get the permit which was in the kitchen.

She spent a couple of minutes rummaging through drawers before finally remembering she had left the permits by the front door, the permit was then promptly filled out and I had to return to the car on my crutch to display it (my fried could not do this as she has a newborn baby she had to tend to). Unfortunately as I got to my car I saw the CEO leaving and the PCN had already been served.

It is well established law that a motorist is allowed as long as is reasonably necessary to obtain a permit and return to their car to display it, and as long as this activity is carried out immediately and without interruption or undue delay, there is no contravention.

This must be the case because otherwise any motorist who did not have a permit already with them would be in immediate contravention the moment their vehicle became stationary, which cannot be the legal position in a road where visitors are expected to obtain a visitor's permit from the house of whoever they are visiting.

I attach a copy of the duly completed permit and I trust that in the circumstances you will agree there has been no contravention.

Yours faithfully,


Send this via https://brent.tarantoportal.com/ and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hi Thanks. I cant seem to access the links. I also appealed on the 31st May in my own words, just before you replied on the 1st because I didn't think anyone would reply and I didn't want to miss the cut off as I was busy on the 1st.

I still haven't had a decision. Not holding my breath

..and where is your permit - presumably you sent the council a copy- and what time did you tick off?




Hi Thanks. I cant seem to access the links. I also appealed on the 31st May in my own words, just before you replied on the 1st because I didn't think anyone would reply and I didn't want to miss the cut off as I was busy on the 1st.

I still haven't had a decision. Not holding my breath
@Nick325i Show us what you sent.

At least if they reject you already have a draft to challenge the notice to owner. Please note that if you challenge the notice to owner within 14 days of the date of issue the discount will be reoffered even if they reject, so please don't be tempted to pay the discount just because they reject your informal representations.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

 I parked in a residents bay with the intention of getting a visitors permit from the owner of the house, as per her instructions. I remember looking at my phone as I was knocking on the door and it was 10.05. As the owner of the house opened the door her baby woke up and was crying so she invite me in while she attended to the baby. This took a few minutes. She then came to the hallway and said she would get me a permit from the kitchen. I followed her there and she was rummaging through various kitchen drawers unable to find them and asking me to look by the TV and various places. Eventually she remembered that her husband had left them by the front door for me. By the time I had been given one there was a knock at the door from one of the neighbours to say there was a warden taking pictures of my car. That week I was on a crutch due to an achillies injury so I wasn't moving too quickly anyway. By the time I hobbled out I could see them leaving. The timing was just very unlucky.