3. Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanover R
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winehouse

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Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanover R
« on: January 20, 2025, 08:25:46 pm »


https://maps.app.goo.gl/qxmbJ57uGbXZVcuf9

PCN BT24062665
VRN GF69XCW

Hi @cp8759

I must admit, I've never noticed these signs before.

I believe the signs are insufficient. I drove back down the road today; the enclosed photos show the first signs you encounter, and there are no road markings. Moreover, these signs are positioned between trees where they could easily be obscured by a high-sided vehicle. Unfortunately, my dashcam had already overwritten that day's footage, so unable to check.

Image 2 shows the approach. Image 3 is zoomed in to see the signs. Image 4 is presumably the start of the zone.

Thank you for your time
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cp8759

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2025, 08:29:29 pm »
@winehouse you need to show us the actual PCN please.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2025, 08:40:41 pm »
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cp8759

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2025, 09:53:40 pm »
The tribunal would say the signs are good enough, but when you get to the tribunal these screenshots will win the case:





To see why have a read of Muhammadmaisam Datoo v London Borough of Brent (2240196951, 29 July 2024), we have a plethora of cases all won on the same point.

For now, just make a one line representation saying that the alleged contravention did not occur. Send it online and take a timed / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2025, 11:15:23 am »
Thank you @cp8759

Could I just the reason why I would start with "The alleged contravention did not occur"?

Thanks again
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cp8759

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2025, 08:09:30 pm »
Quote from: winehouse on January 23, 2025, 11:15:23 am
Could I just the reason why I would start with "The alleged contravention did not occur"?

Because there is a presumption of innocence and you're entitled to simply require the council to prove its case. If they fail to do that (which happens surprisingly often) then you don't need to do anything else.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2025, 08:14:13 pm »
Fantastic. Thank you for your help.
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winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2025, 10:16:39 am »
Hi

I received a Notice of Rejection yesterday.

Could you please advise the best course of action?

Thank you for your help.

Regards
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John U.K.

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2025, 11:07:15 am »
Please post up all sides of the NoR, redacting only yr name & address.
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winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2025, 12:19:55 pm »
Thank you
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cp8759

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2025, 11:39:03 am »
@winehouse well at this point it's decision time, and you need to decide whether you want to require the council to prove its case at the tribunal. Unfortunately the council updated its website on 20 January, so the website issue falls away as far as this local authority is concerned. I regret to say that I can't really see anything that warrants foregoing the discount, but someone else might spot something.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 11:40:51 am by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2025, 01:42:27 pm »
Where is the whole of the PCN?  There is one issue re the spurious/confusing statement re date of service in brackets.
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2025, 07:08:24 pm »
@Hippocrates

https://imgur.com/a/brent-alleged-contravention-f0RUfWu

Quote from: Hippocrates on April 12, 2025, 01:42:27 pm
Where is the whole of the PCN?  There is one issue re the spurious/confusing statement re date of service in brackets.
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Hippocrates

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2025, 09:38:09 pm »
All pages please.
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

winehouse

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Re: Brent, 53J, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Road NW10 / Hanov
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2025, 01:25:17 pm »
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