Author Topic: Birmingham City Council, code 83 parked without displaying valid ticket, Moseley Village Car Park  (Read 1517 times)

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Hi,

Parked in Mosely Village Car Park one evening, machine was broken, took a photo and could not find another in the car park. The car park was also pitch black as the lights didn't appear to be working. A couple of guys who were at the machine said the 'app' wasn't working also so I didn't even bother trying to pay via that. I couldn't even see the signage so I had no idea what app I had to get to pay for the parking.

Anyway, got a ticket, appealed through their appeals thing which was confusing because it never actually said appeal, it just said "comment".

Initial PCN:




This was my initial appeal to them:

I am writing to you to appeal the PCN issued on 10/11/2023 against MF19 WDP in Moseley Village Car park.

The contravention was for parking without a valid pay and display ticket on display (83) - this was because the only ticket machine in the car park was out of order. No other parking machines in the car park were able to be located so it was therefore assumed that this was the only ticket machine in the car park. According to your discretion policy (under MC14) this appears to be a valid reason to have the PCN rescinded which I respectfully request given the reasoning above.



rejection letter:




I'm confused now as I think I have 28 days to appeal but cannot appeal again until I get an NTO? I've had a brief search of the forum and found this very similar case:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/contravention-83-pay-and-display-machine-not-working-ealing-council/msg3400/#msg3400

Any help / recommendations on how to get this revoked would be helpful

PS sorry for the formatting.

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The PCN gives you 28 days to pay or submit representations. You submittedwhat is called an "informal challenge" and this was rejected, and they re-offered the discount provided you pay by the date in their letter. If you want to submit a formal representation, you have to wait for the Notice to Owner, which cannot be sent out until the 28 day period on the PCN has expired. At the Notice to Owner stage the discount option is lost. Your reps will again be considered, and either rejected or accepted. Some councils re-offer the discount at this stage, but it is not a legal obligation. However, if they reject, it is then a no-brainer to appeal to the adjudicators at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal because the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs.

Ah that makes sense, from searching cases similar to mine it appears that formal representation is also just rejected normally. Is it worth wasting the effort in actually writing a defence or should I submit a token formal rep just to get access to the adjudication?

Just refer them to your informal reps as the basis for your case.

Reviving an old thread here now - Just got my response back from the council after my formal reps, obviously they rejected it.

Formal rep sent:

Quote
As stated in my initial appeal, there was no machine present that could have been used to purchase a pay & display ticket. The rejection letter dated 10/11/23 stated that payment for the parking should have been obtained via the ‘RingGo’ facility using a telephone - while this facility may have existed the driver was unaware of this fact due to the car park being pitch black as there was no lighting in the car park. Any signs that indicate other methods to pay for parking were not visible at all. The driver cannot possibly be held accountable if there are no clear instructions on other methods to provide payment for the car park and the only obvious method for payment (the machine) was not available. Evidence for the lack of lighting can be seen in the image I originally submitted with the initial appeal - it shows that the machine was not lit at all except for the backlit display. I have reattached the same picture at the bottom.

In addition to this, the alleged contravention code (83) which was given as “Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher or parking clock.” also appears to be incorrect. If there was the option to pay by phone, that contravention code would still apply as nothing would be ‘displayed’ as it is all handled virtually. Therefore it appears to me the wrong contravention code has been used on the PCN itself - a quick search reveals contravention code 73 as “Parked without payment of the parking charge.” would be the correct contravention code.

Given these points, I respectfully ask you to rescind the PCN given the reasons outlined above.

Response from them:






I'm pretty annoyed about this because there were a tonne of other cars with PCNs given on the same night - probably for the same reason as me. Any advice / help for going to the adjudicator? I also note that my time limit is coming up so I need to submit it soon.

I do not know why they think I examined the machine, as I said in my original rep, it was pitch black. The only thing I could see was the backlit display saying the machine was out of order. As for the CEO evidence, it does show the area where my car was lit but this photo was taken ~2 hours after I parked, the machine was not near where I parked and from memory when I came back to the car park the lighting had come back on.

I also note that the rejection letter does not note that the adjudicator can extend the period given to appeal the PCN (as shown here)

When did you submit the representations against the Notice to Owner, and how did you submit them ? Under the Traffic Management Act 2004, they have 56 days to respond. If this is exceeded, you win by default. The 56 days is counted from the date the council receive the reps.

Part of the council's reasons for rejecting your reps was that the alternative of paying by phone was available and should have been used. IMO, it is therefore totally contradictory to insist that a pay and display ticket or voucher was required to be displayed. IMO, their own statement supports your claim and I would start your appeal with this. IMO, the correct grounds of appeal are 'tne penalty demanded.....circumstances of the case'. 

I would also add another point which is procedural impropriety. The NOR must, among other matters:

ii)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs, and

(iii)describe the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made, and

The NOR states:
'There is no charge for appealing and costs are not normally awarded. Details about when an order for costs can be made can be found on the website..'

The regs provide at para. 13 of Schedule 1 to the Appeals regs:
3), an adjudicator may make an order awarding costs and expenses—

(a)against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn an appeal or an enforcement authority which has consented to an appeal being allowed), if the adjudicator considers that—

(i)the party has acted frivolously or vexatiously, or

(ii)the party’s conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable;

(b)against an enforcement authority, where the adjudicator considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.

IMO, 'costs are not normally awarded' does not meet the requirement for what the NOR must 'indicate'. What the authority have done is to signpost where, outside of the NOR, the mandatory info may be found.

cp has experience of this issue i.e. the distinction which the courts draw between whether something is presented e.g. evidence, as opposed to simply being referred to in another place e.g. a link.

I would add that this point is fundamental to the way most authorities outside London structure their NORs and therefore might be finessed by an adjudicator if they're minded to allow an appeal on the first grounds.

WaIt for others.
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When did you submit the representations against the Notice to Owner, and how did you submit them ? Under the Traffic Management Act 2004, they have 56 days to respond. If this is exceeded, you win by default. The 56 days is counted from the date the council receive the reps.

Unfortunately, it has been less than 56 days  :( I think it has been around 30ish days since submission.

Part of the council's reasons for rejecting your reps was that the alternative of paying by phone was available and should have been used. IMO, it is therefore totally contradictory to insist that a pay and display ticket or voucher was required to be displayed. IMO, their own statement supports your claim and I would start your appeal with this. IMO, the correct grounds of appeal are 'tne penalty demanded.....circumstances of the case'. 

I would also add another point which is procedural impropriety. The NOR must, among other matters:

ii)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs, and

(iii)describe the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made, and

The NOR states:
'There is no charge for appealing and costs are not normally awarded. Details about when an order for costs can be made can be found on the website..'

The regs provide at para. 13 of Schedule 1 to the Appeals regs:
3), an adjudicator may make an order awarding costs and expenses—

(a)against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn an appeal or an enforcement authority which has consented to an appeal being allowed), if the adjudicator considers that—

(i)the party has acted frivolously or vexatiously, or

(ii)the party’s conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable;

(b)against an enforcement authority, where the adjudicator considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.

IMO, 'costs are not normally awarded' does not meet the requirement for what the NOR must 'indicate'. What the authority have done is to signpost where, outside of the NOR, the mandatory info may be found.

cp has experience of this issue i.e. the distinction which the courts draw between whether something is presented e.g. evidence, as opposed to simply being referred to in another place e.g. a link.

I would add that this point is fundamental to the way most authorities outside London structure their NORs and therefore might be finessed by an adjudicator if they're minded to allow an appeal on the first grounds.

WaIt for others.

Thanks for your thoughts - yes I agree with you. I have also seen previous adjudicators allow the appeal based upon other procedural matters where the Authority does not explicitly say that the Tribunal has the power to extend the time permitted to submit an appeal to the IPT.

Has anyone gone to the tribunal lately? is it all done via written correspondence or do I need to orate my case over the phone to someone?

« Last Edit: March 01, 2024, 07:38:40 pm by kingsy »

If you take the matter to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, you have the choice of papers-based, telephone, or video  adjudication. We strongly recommend OPs never opt for papers-based, as it means no questions or clarifications can be dealt with.
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/

Ok thanks. Anyone have any tips/advice on going through the process apart from not going the paper-only route.

Your reps will be the same as if you went for a papers-based adjudication, but by being on the phone (or video), to the adjudicator, you can answer questions, and if the council attend, refute any statement their rep may make.

All pretty normal and nothing to worry about.  The only thing is you have to give some of your time for the adjudication.
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So it turns out I was given the wrong PIN code for the appeal so I've had to spend a week of back and forth with the tribunal people to get a working code.

The problem is now that the 28 day period has passed AND I've already received a Charge Certificate literally within the 28 days expiring and I've not even got around to writing my appeal!

When I submit my appeal through the portal can I request the adjudication occur via phone?

Are any gaps / procedural things regarding the Charge Certificate that need to be adhered to?

Will update with copy of charge notice asap


Will update with copy of charge notice asap

Pl do, it could be your get-out-of-jail card. Leave in its date of issue.




I've already got two procedural points I think I just need to wordsmith my 'compelling reasons' point.

Have you been notified by the tribunal that your appeal has been registered? Post their communication.