3. Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
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Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
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Hi Everyone,

Looking into this for a friend. Hers is the black car in the PCN pictures.

PCN issue for 31J

I'm thinking there are 2 defences:
1. "a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles" (Traffic signs regulations) - there were no stationary vehicles when she entered the box (see movement of black van on PCN pics).

2. The box is marked incorrectly. "The diagonal lines are 150 mm wide and should normally be spaced about 2 m apart where the shortest boundary of the box is less than 9 m long" (Traffic signs manual). There is no apparent reason from the images as to why the guidance could not be followed.

What do you think? Am I going in the right direction, or barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks



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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
We'll need to see the video to advise.  Please can you download and post a link here, or if you aren't sure how to do that provide the PCN number and vehicle registration.
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 01:56:38 pm by SITR »
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
Well, sorry to say it, but you look bang-to-rights from the video. Why didn't you manoevre round to the left of the black van to get out of the box ?
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
Wasn't me.
she was in the right hand lane to turn.
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Is this item 25, 26 or 27 of Part 6 and if 25 which of these: 11(6)(a), (b), (c) or (d)?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/made

Presumably as you've measured it in detail you'll know which of the above applies.
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
Item 25, 11(6)(a)

I haven't measured the box, but it's 3 lanes wide, so surely a minimum of 7.5 metres...and even if it's OVER 9m, the spacing of the cross-hatch lines are 2.5m, which would also mean there should be more lines than there are in the box painted.
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
The whole PCN please.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
PCN attached

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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
The video seems to show a contravention so I think you'll need a technical defence.

Looking at the PCN, the location is hopelessly vague.  New Road is about 4.5 miles long and I counted at least two box junctions along it. It's hard to be sure exactly how many due to its length and because it splits into dual carriageway at various points.

The PCN is required to state the grounds on which the authority believe it's due so if they can't explain satisfactorily and unambiguously where the offence took place, it's a strong argument to say it's void.
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
2 pages only of the PCN I see.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 20, 2024, 06:17:24 am
2 pages only of the PCN I see.

Sorry - that's all my friend sent me...and she's currently away. What else are you looking for?
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Re: Barking & Dagenham - Yellow Box PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
The page with the grounds.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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