Author Topic: Barking & Dagenham PCN - Contravention Code: 62 (Parking on footpath) - Location: Becontree Avenue  (Read 84 times)

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blackmarch

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Hi,

I was at Becontree Medical Centre and parked on my car the wide footpath like everyone else had done. There were no sign indicating that I couldn't and no marked  bays for parking. I asked inside whether or not that would be a problem and was told that it's fine. Now, I've come out and found a PCN on my windscreen. Apparently, the lady at the reception tried coming out to stop the guy from giving me the PCN and was told that I wasn't allowed to park there since there were double yellow lines on the road. As far as I was aware, they only applied to the road, not the pavement since it offers no obstruction. I've added pictures of where I parked for reference.


I wasn't sure what to do since I know I'm pretty sure I'm not in the wrong here, and eventually found my way here. I spent a week researching independently before finding this site so I hope you guys can advise me before I'm forced to pay.


Thanks


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« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 12:00:18 pm by blackmarch »

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John U.K.

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The PCN was issued, not for parking in an area governed by DYLs, but wholly or partly on the footway.

Please post the back of the PCN and any Council photos, with a GSV link to the location.

Please also provide your PCN number and your reg.mark.

Footway parking has been banned in London since 1974, except where specifically permitted (by TRO and signs).

blackmarch

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The PCN was issued, not for parking in an area governed by DYLs, but wholly or partly on the footway.

Please post the back of the PCN and any Council photos, with a GSV link to the location.

Please also provide your PCN number and your reg.mark.

Footway parking has been banned in London since 1974, except where specifically permitted (by TRO and signs).

Here you go.

PCN Number: BZ61066578
Vehicle Registration: FL13PKO
GSV: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/508+Becontree+Ave,+Dagenham+RM8+3HR/@51.5590434,0.1355602,3a,75y,147.26h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sO28Sx7SRNBV3c3Dhip2MsA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3DO28Sx7SRNBV3c3Dhip2MsA%26yaw%3D147.25504!7i16384!8i8192!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x47d8a4549c9c8d83:0x900e223e3c224039!2s508+Becontree+Ave,+Dagenham+RM8+3HR!3b1!8m2!3d51.5588499!4d0.135737!16s%2Fg%2F11c3q2pw6r!3m5!1s0x47d8a4549c9c8d83:0x900e223e3c224039!8m2!3d51.5588499!4d0.135737!16s%2Fg%2F11c3q2pw6r?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I've also re-uploaded the PCN photo uncensored alongside the picture of the back.

While I was getting the link to the GSV, I noticed that there is indeed a sign saying you can park on the footpath. I've taken a screenshot and attached that too.


Cheers

John U.K.

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https://maps.app.goo.gl/E7724S2fWBWy5uVh9

I was under the impression you were parked on the same side as the Centre?

I could not see a sign on that side of the road, but it is possible that the TRO/TMO and council resolution disallowing the ban on footpath parking did so on both sides: you must check.

But you must submit some sort of challenge within the discount period: if you do so, most Councils will re-offer the discount when/if they decline the challenge.

stamfordman

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I'd say wrong contravention - could have been done for double yellows but footway parking is allowed or common practice on both sides of road. There may have been marked bays a long time ago.



« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 01:55:26 pm by stamfordman »

blackmarch

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https://maps.app.goo.gl/E7724S2fWBWy5uVh9

I was under the impression you were parked on the same side as the Centre?

I could not see a sign on that side of the road, but it is possible that the TRO/TMO and council resolution disallowing the ban on footpath parking did so on both sides: you must check.

But you must submit some sort of challenge within the discount period: if you do so, most Councils will re-offer the discount when/if they decline the challenge.

Yes, I parked on the other side. I just thought that the sign applied to both sides and showed that you're allowed to park on the footpath. I might be mistaken.

blackmarch

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I'd say wrong contravention - could have been done for double yellows but footway parking is allowed or common practice on both sides of road. There may have been marked bays a long time ago.





So what do I do now?

H C Andersen

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IMO,

Sadly, in the main London councils are ignorant about these matters but this doesn't stop them trying to apply their bespoke received-wisdom procedures.

But wrong is wrong.

The evidence - which as far as I can see is in pretty short supply on your side of the road- is:

Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway;
Opposite your car is a regulatory traffic sign which by law conveys the following meaning:

Vehicles may be parked wholly on the verge or footway

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

The sign does not allow councils to apply their own meaning, they've displayed the sign and must live with the consequences which in your case are that you parked wholly on the footway and therefore were acting within the permission granted by the sign. 

So, why were you issued with a PCN?

It would appear that there's a belief in the council's mind that you were parked 'too far' onto the footway.

Tango sierra.

The sign opposite says you can park wholly on the footway without limit and not be in contravention of what is otherwise a London-wide prohibition on footway parking.*

So, what's the best way to deal with this, recognising that they won't want to admit that your interpretation is correct.

I parked as seen in the CEO's photos which unfortunately do not capture the permissive regulatory sign immediately opposite my car which for your convenience I have included**.
As the authority should know, this sign conveys the following lawful exception to the London-wide prohibition on footway parking:

Diagram 668 - Vehicles may be parked wholly on the verge or footway


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

As my car was parked wholly on the footway then clearly a contravention could not and therefore did not occur as I was acting in accordance with the permission granted by the sign. Consequently the PCN must be cancelled.

If I may try and pre-empt possible responses from you:

I was parked too far onto the footway: Cannot apply because there is no limit to the permission granted by the traffic sign placed by the council provided a vehicle is wholly on the footway.

My car was partially in contravention of the double yellow lines on the carriageway and therefore not permitted to be parked on the road at all, whether carriageway or footway*: Correct, but this doesn't solve the authority's problem because in such a case the only grounds available are '01 - Parked in a restricted street etc....' and not Parked on the footway.

*- don't do this again or you could be issued with a PCN for contravening the waiting restriction conveyed by the DYL which applies to the whole road, carriageway and footway.

** - make sure any photo captures the sign and where you were parked in one shot, make life easy for the challenged wee souls!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 02:17:11 pm by H C Andersen »

blackmarch

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IMO,

Sadly, in the main London councils are ignorant about these matters but this doesn't stop them trying to apply their bespoke received-wisdom procedures.

But wrong is wrong.

The evidence - which as far as I can see is in pretty short supply on your side of the road- is:

Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway;
Opposite your car is a regulatory traffic sign which by law conveys the following meaning:

Vehicles may be parked wholly on the verge or footway

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

The sign does not allow councils to apply their own meaning, they've displayed the sign and must live with the consequences which in your case are that you parked wholly on the footway and therefore were acting within the permission granted by the sign. 

So, why were you issued with a PCN?

It would appear that there's a belief in the council's mind that you were parked 'too far' onto the footway.

Tango sierra.

The sign opposite says you can park wholly on the footway without limit and not be in contravention of what is otherwise a London-wide prohibition on footway parking.*

So, what's the best way to deal with this, recognising that they won't want to admit that your interpretation is correct.

I parked as seen in the CEO's photos which unfortunately do not capture the permissive regulatory sign immediately opposite my car which for your convenience I have included**.
As the authority should know, this sign conveys the following lawful exception to the London-wide prohibition on footway parking:

Diagram 668 - Vehicles may be parked wholly on the verge or footway


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

As my car was parked wholly on the footway then clearly a contravention could not and therefore did not occur as I was acting in accordance with the permission granted by the sign. Consequently the PCN must be cancelled.

If I may try and pre-empt possible responses from you:

I was parked too far onto the footway: Cannot apply because there is no limit to the permission granted by the traffic sign placed by the council provided a vehicle is wholly on the footway.

My car was partially in contravention of the double yellow lines on the carriageway and therefore not permitted to be parked on the road at all, whether carriageway or footway*: Correct, but this doesn't solve the authority's problem because in such a case the only grounds available are '01 - Parked in a restricted street etc....' and not Parked on the footway.

*- don't do this again or you could be issued with a PCN for contravening the waiting restriction conveyed by the DYL which applies to the whole road, carriageway and footway.

** - make sure any photo captures the sign and where you were parked in one shot, make life easy for the challenged wee souls!

Hi, thanks for the reply. I'm going out in a bit so I'll try to get back there and take a photo of where I parked including the sign.


Just to be clear, when you wrote "If I may try and pre-empt possible responses from you", were you speaking to me or is that for the reply to the council?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 02:40:56 pm by blackmarch »

H C Andersen

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You to the authority.

Change 'you' to 'authority' if it makes it clearer.

blackmarch

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You to the authority.

Change 'you' to 'authority' if it makes it clearer.

If we point the double yellow line out, could they change the PCN to be about that instead?

H C Andersen

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blackmarch

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IMO,

Sadly, in the main London councils are ignorant about these matters but this doesn't stop them trying to apply their bespoke received-wisdom procedures.

But wrong is wrong.

The evidence - which as far as I can see is in pretty short supply on your side of the road- is:

Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway;
Opposite your car is a regulatory traffic sign which by law conveys the following meaning:

Vehicles may be parked wholly on the verge or footway

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

The sign does not allow councils to apply their own meaning, they've displayed the sign and must live with the consequences which in your case are that you parked wholly on the footway and therefore were acting within the permission granted by the sign. 

So, why were you issued with a PCN?

It would appear that there's a belief in the council's mind that you were parked 'too far' onto the footway.

Tango sierra.

The sign opposite says you can park wholly on the footway without limit and not be in contravention of what is otherwise a London-wide prohibition on footway parking.*

So, what's the best way to deal with this, recognising that they won't want to admit that your interpretation is correct.

I parked as seen in the CEO's photos which unfortunately do not capture the permissive regulatory sign immediately opposite my car which for your convenience I have included**.
As the authority should know, this sign conveys the following lawful exception to the London-wide prohibition on footway parking:

Diagram 668 - Vehicles may be parked wholly on the verge or footway


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

As my car was parked wholly on the footway then clearly a contravention could not and therefore did not occur as I was acting in accordance with the permission granted by the sign. Consequently the PCN must be cancelled.

If I may try and pre-empt possible responses from you:

I was parked too far onto the footway: Cannot apply because there is no limit to the permission granted by the traffic sign placed by the council provided a vehicle is wholly on the footway.

My car was partially in contravention of the double yellow lines on the carriageway and therefore not permitted to be parked on the road at all, whether carriageway or footway*: Correct, but this doesn't solve the authority's problem because in such a case the only grounds available are '01 - Parked in a restricted street etc....' and not Parked on the footway.

*- don't do this again or you could be issued with a PCN for contravening the waiting restriction conveyed by the DYL which applies to the whole road, carriageway and footway.

** - make sure any photo captures the sign and where you were parked in one shot, make life easy for the challenged wee souls!

Bad news. I went down to site of the incident and it seems like the sign was removed. The GSV image is out of date.
However, it seems like everyone is still parking on the footpath without consequences. In fact, when I got a ticket, there was a car parked behind me that was left untouched. I attached some photos of the street as it is today. How should I proceed?

H C Andersen

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Then turn the argument round, amend to remove reference to the current regulatory sign and change to weave in:

..in every one of the CEO's photos and in recent GSV shots of the area (enclosed) parking with 4 wheels on the footway is commonplace along Becontree and side roads. The authority cannot therefore claim that this is not permitted, although they do need to answer the question where the regulatory signs which convey this permission are located because there's none in the immediate area.

And as parking wholly on the footway is permitted - or if not permitted then tolerated as a matter of policy- then there was no justification in issuing the PCN in question because my car was simply parked wholly on the footway. The PCN must therefore be cancelled......

If I may try and pre-empt possible responses from the authority:

I was parked too far onto the footway: Cannot apply because in the absence of regulatory signs to the contrary there is no limit to where a vehicle may be parked on the footway;

My car was partially in contravention of the double yellow lines on the carriageway and therefore not permitted to be parked on the road at all, whether carriageway or footway: Correct. This was my mistake but this doesn't solve the authority's problem because in such a case the only grounds available are '01 - Parked in a restricted street etc....' and not Parked on the footway.

.....

and whatever other contextual amendments might be needed.


OP, the 14-day risk-free challenge period ends on 6 Nov.