Author Topic: Barking & Dagenham Council Code 40, Disabled Bay ticket - No timer displayed - Clockhouse Avenue -Appeal Rejected  (Read 579 times)

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Hi

I wish I saw this forum before sending an appeal. Any advice appreciated



<p>Long story short: I parked my car with disabled passenger (my mother) on a disabled bay with badge and timer but the timer fell off dash. The parking attendant was still at the scene when we came back less than 2 hours later (can park for 4 hours) and they knew we were genuine but just said to appeal (maybe they just wanted me off their back). In the appeal I sent reservation of the restaurant to show around the time we would have been there, disabled badge and timer, their photo also displays the badge, also you can see an image of the car breaklights turned on when we left under their own evidence

My initial appeal I sent:
I parked with my mum who is disabled on the disabled bay due to her mobility issues. When we came back under 2 hours (4 hours allowed) we saw the notice which left us confused and shocked as we have badge. It was until looking in the car I saw timer fell off the dash whilst the badge stayed on. The photos show this in the evidence. My mother has anxiety and luckily parking attendant was there who said appeal since she knew it was not deliberate. It was very bad weather that evening, heavy rain and wind, that I chose to park there as it has ease of access for my mother who has trouble walking distances despite the terrible weather. I always comply when taking my mother out and read permit signs. This is first time it's ever happened and i try to be careful. As you can see from badge in your photo, badge/timer in my photo, reservation uploaded and time we left (see last photo with brake lights on in your evidence) we have everything for it to be valid. I can only apologise for this
</p>

Map of contravention:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/u2LhxAhKjbhNuoHG9?g_st=ac


I received a rejection uploaded below and all evidence so far including original PCN








« Last Edit: March 03, 2025, 04:53:18 pm by Polopo »

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The bay is 4 hours not 3 hours so they are wrong to say 3 hours here.

But we have key cases that show the clock is not necessary in timed disabled bays. We also know that some councils don't even include the clock in its traffic orders.

I'll did out the necessary later.

EDIT

Have a look at this thread and the two cases I cited:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/hackney-(code-40)-parked-without-displaying-disabled-person's-badge-in-prescribe/msg44271/#msg44271

Also:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/leeds-code-40-parked-in-a-designated-disabled-bay-without-displaying-blue-badge-/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2025, 05:01:27 pm by stamfordman »

The bay is 4 hours not 3 hours so they are wrong to say 3 hours here.

But we have key cases that show the clock is not necessary in timed disabled bays. We also know that some councils don't even include the clock in its traffic orders.

I'll did out the necessary later.
Yes exactly the 3hour/4hour thing I noticed too. Thank you for looking into this. It's hard enough to get my mother out the house and things like this makes her worry more

I just updated my post with two links to other cases. The first also has links to two key cases.

I just updated my post with two links to other cases. The first also has links to two key cases.
Have read through both thanks. I've tried finding the traffic policy for Barking/Dagenham just for further peace of mind and the only document I can find with mention of disabled exemption is the linked below document which states "The Blue Badge Scheme is more correctly known as the Disabled Person's Parking
Exemption. The badge conveys a number of benefits to the holder, including an

exemption from waiting restrictions (single and double yellow lines). Badge holders
may park for up to three hours on single or double yellow lines (provided a loading
ban - yellow kerb blips - is not in place) and a clock is displayed"

So no mention of disabled bay parking requiring timer just like other councils

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://lbbd.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s57862/Parking%2520Policy%2520-%2520App.%2520A%2520Enforcement%2520Policy.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjo1IadzO6LAxW-XEEAHf9lAHUQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0VjV0DALVRRcNVnPvPBTXa

I guess the next step is waiting for NTO and then writing a formal representation similar to the ones on the other threads?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2025, 08:41:26 pm by Polopo »

I can't find the order. I would wait for the NTO.

Is the car registered to you and is the V5C logbook name/address correct?

I can't find the order. I would wait for the NTO.

Is the car registered to you and is the V5C logbook name/address correct?
Yeah only can find traffic enforcement mentioned above

The car is registered to my father and the address is correct

Having read a couple of the cited cases and the council's response in this case, I suggest a different approach.

IMO, the legal issues here are:
Even if a Traffic Management Order includes provisions that a 'clock' must be displayed in a time-limited BB holders' bay(which I think is permissible), is the traffic sign prescribed under the TSRGD adequate to convey this requirement and would its use meet the council's LATOR duty; and

Even if it did, would the use of the contravention description '...BB in the prescribed manner' be a permissible means to demand a penalty?

IMO, no and no.

1. TSRGD are clear as is the requirement to request the SoS's approval to a varied sign;

2. No. The mandated penalty refers to terms defined in legislation (i.e. BB and prescribed manner) and it does not lie with the council to, shall we say, broaden the meanings of either so as to shoehorn a contravention of a TMO into the mandated penalty grounds.

And IMO there's procedural impropriety in the PCN i.e. the mandatory warning regarding 'if reps are made but a NTO is still issued the owner must respond to the NTO' seems to be missing.

I agree - if it goes to the tribunal it really needs expert representation and CP will probably do it.

But let's wait for the NTO.

Having read a couple of the cited cases and the council's response in this case, I suggest a different approach.

IMO, the legal issues here are:
Even if a Traffic Management Order includes provisions that a 'clock' must be displayed in a time-limited BB holders' bay(which I think is permissible), is the traffic sign prescribed under the TSRGD adequate to convey this requirement and would its use meet the council's LATOR duty; and

Even if it did, would the use of the contravention description '...BB in the prescribed manner' be a permissible means to demand a penalty?

IMO, no and no.

1. TSRGD are clear as is the requirement to request the SoS's approval to a varied sign;

2. No. The mandated penalty refers to terms defined in legislation (i.e. BB and prescribed manner) and it does not lie with the council to, shall we say, broaden the meanings of either so as to shoehorn a contravention of a TMO into the mandated penalty grounds.

And IMO there's procedural impropriety in the PCN i.e. the mandatory warning regarding 'if reps are made but a NTO is still issued the owner must respond to the NTO' seems to be missing.

I'm trying to familiarise myself with the acronyms! Thanks for your input I will let you know once I've received the NTO

Welcome to our acronym world!

PCN -penalty charge notice
NTO -notice to owner
CC- charge certificate
OfR- order for recovery
TEC-traffic enforcement centre
WS-witness statement
TSRGD- traffic signs regulations and general directions
RTRA-road traffic regulation act
TMA-traffic management act
JR-judicial review...or Jim Reeves!




Welcome to our acronym world!

PCN -penalty charge notice
NTO -notice to owner
CC- charge certificate
OfR- order for recovery
TEC-traffic enforcement centre
WS-witness statement
TSRGD- traffic signs regulations and general directions
RTRA-road traffic regulation act
TMA-traffic management act
JR-judicial review...or Jim Reeves!
I did not realise there would be this many  :o I think I've got it.
LATOR - Law and Traffic Order Regulation's?
 SOS - I'm sure thats not the help signal  :D

LATOR = The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/content

LATOR = The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/content
3 outta 5 letters. Not too bad! Thanks

I've received the NTO and attached. Was away so only just saw it

Should i include the cases stamfordmans mentioned in pdf or is it better to go through H C Andersen approach? Any help with this representation will be super appreciated!

Edit: not sure why it's going landscape in attached...it's portrait when I took photo

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2025, 09:53:37 pm by Polopo »