3. Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
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Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
« Reply #15 on: »
Hi Enceladus, I extend my sincere gratitude for your meticulous review. Your affirmation that the Warrant was issued correctly in terms of time and limits is duly noted. However, it is important to clarify that my house in Kensington has never been used as the RK address.

It looks like CDER Group Limited decided to go full Sherlock Holmes, testing out addresses like they were clues in a mystery—just waiting to see if anyone yells, "Aha, you found me!" But some bright spark clearly forgot to check when I actually bought the house, so they just slapped 23 January 2024 as the issue date—because why not?

Your explanation makes perfect sense—no wonder the City of London call centre agent nearly short-circuited when I handed over £204. She must've thought it was Monopoly money and chucked it back at me like I was trying to pay with chocolate coins!

I discovered the PCN when CDER Group Limited sent me a red-lettered love note. When I phoned them, their agent grilled me about my address, as if I were starring in a crime drama.

But when I pointed out that a Limited Company can't just crown itself as an Enforcement Agent, she went into a full-on neurotic meltdown, knickers in a knot and all. I figured it was best to let her unravel and leave them to their own chaos!

If I can't pay the debt, I’ve just put it in a parking space—no ticket required!
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Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
« Reply #16 on: »
Hi again, Enceladus. I have considered your point regarding the distribution of funds paid under a Warrant of Control, indicating that they should be split or 'divvied' between the City of London and the Enforcement Agent. If I’ve understood correctly, this reflects your stance.

The link provided by HC Anderson references the 2014 regulations, which clearly define the "proceeds of enforcement" as the funds obtained from the sale of a debtor's goods. According to these regulations, if the proceeds are insufficient to cover both the amount owed under the Warrant of Control and the Enforcement Agent's fees, these funds must be proportionately distributed between the creditor and the agent.

However, I found no reference indicating that payments made directly to the City of London constitute "proceeds of enforcement." The term "enforcement" is clearly defined in the regulations as involving the removal and sale of the debtor's goods.

Please provide further clarification on the regulation that mandates the apportionment of payments in the manner prescribed for the proceeds from the sale of goods.
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Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
« Reply #17 on: »
As the regs make clear, the NoE is the most important part of the enforcement process for a Warrant of Control.

@Enceladus: City of London won't accept payment once the matter has been passed to their bailiff.

Why?

If the bailiff has not issued a NoE then the debt is simply owed to the council surely?
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Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
« Reply #18 on: »
To reiterate. The fact that you never used the Kensington address as the RK address is irrelevant.

It's your current address and apparently was your address, or an address that was associated with you, even if you had not yet moved in. Or you had temporarily moved out.

Or are you saying that you did not have any association with the Kensington address at all on or prior to the 23rd Jan 2024? It's difficult to understand how the bailiff and the CoL could have predicted you would buy this particular property before you actually did. Might it be that you bought a property, then started to renovate so you couldn't move in? Or recovered a property that you had rented out whilst in Singapore or some scenario like that.

If CDER can find any vehicle registered to you in a public place then they'll likely clamp it and threaten to tow it away. Not just the vehicle involved in the original contravention.

@HCA
The CoL would have acceped £204 if the warrant had net yet been issued/sealed, in response to the OfR. Once the warrant was issued the matter was passed to CDER to collect. CDER would have sent a Notice of Enforcement for £204 plus their £75 fee. The CoL would then refer all attempts to pay the penalty to the Bailiff firm. But even if the CoL accepted the £204 payment it would only be a partial payment and would be divvied up between CDER and the CoL. There are rules about who gets what out of the smaller cake and the matter is not closed out. The payment shortfall can still be enforced

Apparently the OP didn't get get the notice of enforcement as it would have been sent to some address other than where the OP now resides.

We haven't seen the "love letter" from CDER, please post that up.
And how much are the bailiffs actually looking for? Is it £279 or £514? I assume the "love letter" tells us.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2024, 05:37:10 pm by Enceladus »
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Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
« Reply #19 on: »
Hi Enceladus,

Thank you for your response. My enquiry concerning the time limits for issuing a Warrant of Control relative to the contravention date has been thoroughly addressed. Therefore, any further discussion on this matter is purely academic.

I can confirm that I bought the house after 23 January 2024 and have never resided there. The property was purchased as a wedding gift for my son.

It is now clear that the relationship between the City of London and CDER Group Limited is commercial and explains the City of London's rejection of the £204.

Upon closer examination of the divvy-up comment above, it becomes clear that this strategy relies on a misinterpretation of Regulation 13, which specifically pertains to the proceeds from the sale of goods when these proceeds fall short of covering both the judgment sum and the enforcement fees.

There’s no Notice of Enforcement, and the letter, with its over-the-top threats, feels like a bad phishing scam straight out of a B-movie. It’s like they’re just angling for someone to call the number on it, probably aiming to win the 'Most Gullible' award—congratulations, I’m the proud recipient!

I'm not losing sleep over the fly-by-nights hunting for the car—it’s off the table, like a dish at a dinner party that’s already been cleared away.

I highly doubt CDER Group Limited had a VIP pass to the DVLA’s national vehicle database. After all, that database doesn’t spill the beans on who owns what car.

And I’m pretty sure Parliament isn’t about to let private companies play detective with people’s names to see what rides they’ve got registered.
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Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?
« Reply #20 on: »
We had a pair of overzealous door-kickers show up at Berkeley Square in the wee hours yesterday.

They gave security an earful demanding my whereabouts and then huffed off to a nearby van for a bit of a sulk.

After an hour of van-side reflection, they finally decided to drive off and leave us all in peace.

Interestingly, their van managed to rack up a PCN for parking in a disabled bay, and when a resident gave them the boot, they snagged another ticket for occupying an EV charging bay without so much as plugging in. I’m keen to see who will enforce these fines—it looks like their adventures are taking a turn for the bureaucracy!

They could have parked for free if they knew.
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  3. Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a Warrant of Control After a contravention?