Free Traffic Legal Advice

I started getting text messages on the 04/06/24. The first one read - 'You have an outstanding account. Pay now using **** or contact CDER URGENTLY on 0330 460 5295, Ref *******'. The second two sent on 06/06/24 and 11/06/24 both read - 'Our ANPR vehicles are patrolling your area and your vehicle may be removed. Please contact CDER on 0330 460 5295. Ref *******'. The last message sent 11/07/24 said- 'Your account may be issued to an Agent to visit your home. Pay now using ***** or contact CDER on 0330 460 5295, ref ********'.

Initially I just thought these messages were spam and ignored them, but after the one on 11/07, I thought I'd take a look further into it and after determining the links were safe, I clicked on them. It took me to a page where it says I owe £589, but doesn't say what for. I called the company, but as I wouldn't provide my address since I didn't know what the fine was for, and under threat of being visited by bailiffs. I then contacted an advice company who organised a 3 way call with CDER Group. It turns out the fine is for a ULEZ charge from December 2023 for my previous car, which I sold in October 2023. When I sold my previous car, it was through part ex with a trader, who took the V5 for my previous car, and said he would sort the transfer of ownership, I have since found out this is not correct. It turns out, the trader never transferred ownership for either of the cars! I've been chasing the trader and he will not respond and has blocked me in all places.

I have not received any of the letters from the creditors as I had sold the property correspondence would have been sent to. The first notification I had was via the text messages I received.

I have been in touch with Citizens Advice, who informed me that due to the circumstances, I shouldn't be liable for paying the fine, they did also say this was an unusual case. CA advised me to contact ULEZ to first check the legitimacy of the messages, which I did. ULEZ said to me to contact The Traffic Enforcement Agency to request a PE2 and PE3, which I have and I'm just at the stage of filling this in. I'm conscious about getting this filled in correctly as I am aware they are often rejected. If my appeal is successful, I know that doesn't mean the PCN will be cancelled, and I am just wondering how I would go about getting it fully cancelled if the appeal is successful.

Any advice on this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Hi Neil,

Thank you for replying.

I am struggling to understand the difference between the PE2 and PE3 forms. I have looked for guidance online and there doesn't seem to be much that can help me.

For my reason on the PE3 form I have stated - 'I am filing a PE3 because I did not receive the initial PCN or subsequent PCN’s/correspondence due to the sale of the property prior to the contravention. I have not received any PCN’s/correspondence at my current address - '

Would I need to put the same as the reason on the PE2?

I am sorry if I'm not supposed to be asking this, but I just don't want to fall at the first hurdle.

Thank you

To answer the question about the difference between the forms.

The PE2 out of time form is an application to the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court for permission to file a Statutory Declaration that is late (out if time).

The PE3 is the Statutory Declaration itself.

For the purposes of these forms you are the respondent and TFL is the applicant. You'll need the PCN number, do you have it?

On the PE3 just tick one of the boxes that applies to you. In this case the box that says "I did not receive the: Notice to Owner (Parking contravention) or Enforcement Notice (Bus lane contravention) or Penalty Charge Notice (Moving Traffic contravention or Congestion Charging contravention)". You don't really have to put a reason. Or just put I did not receive a Penalty Charge Notice.

On the PE2 you need to be specific and state why exactly you are late. So you did not receive any of the statutory documents, in particular the Penalty Charge Notice and the Order of Recovery. This is because you had sold the car on date xxxxxx which is prior to the date of the alleged contravention.

Both forms need to be witnessed. This can be done FOC at any convenient County Court. Ring and check opening times and make an appointment. Don't sign any of the forms until you're in front of the Court Officer.

Else a solicitor or a magistrate will charge £5-£10 per form.

But before you do anything post a draft on here as to exactly what you want to put on the OOT for scrutiny to minimise the risk that TFL will object.

You also need to contact the DVLA and get them to remove you as RK effective from date xxxxxx. There's a form for it.

Have you got anything from the dealer to help prove that you traded the car in? Might be on the invoice for the new car?

As I understand your opening post you only have text messages from the enforcement agents? Do you have a Notice of Enforcement?

PS.
What's the reg number of the car in question?

Post up a draft on here of what you propose to put on the OOT application. Do not submit anything until we have a look at it.

Have you got anything in writing from the DVLA? An email perhaps?

Hi,

I received an email from the DVLA following my conversation with them on 11/07/24 (when it came to my attention that my old vehicle was still in my name)

'Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting DVLA, following your conversation please find details below as discussed for your enquiry.

As you no longer have the vehicle and no V5C is available, please return a letter confirming your full name and address (current and previous if you have moved and not notified the DVLA), the registration number, make & model of the vehicle, the exact date of sale/transfer/scrapping and the name & address of the new keeper/motor trader/scrap dealer (if available). You will need to sign and date the letter

Please write the vehicle registration number and subject of your enquiry at the top of your letter

Please return this to:

DVLA

Swansea

SA991BD'


I sold my property on 23/08/23, then moved into a caravan while looking for another property to buy.

PS.
What's the reg number of the car in question?

Sorry, I missed this bit. It's RV56 VTG

When you traded in the vehicle you should have notified the DVLA by filling in and sending the applicable section of the V5c. You could also have done this online with the Doc Ref No from the V5c. You still could if you have a copy of the V5c?

I think you need to revise the OOT application. In this case you're hoping that TFL will read your application when they get it from the TEC and will be persuaded not to oppose your OOT application. And then you're trying to convince the court officer that you have good reason for being late with your SD application.

An email or letter from the DVLA confirming that you are removed as Registered Keeper effective from the
11th Oct 2023 is what you need. I'm not sure how quickly they'll issue that especially with a postal application. The email you have is just advice on what to do since you no longer have the V5c, not confirmation that the changes have actually been made.

The phrase "I had no fixed address. Due to this, .........." isn't really helping. It's pointing the finger of blame at yourself. And it begs the question, where was your other post going when you had no fixed address? Surely you had some sort of arrangement in place for other important post? Was post perhaps redirected to the caravan site?

So I'd change the emphasis. Something like the below. Wait and see what others have to say as I believe there's room for improvement.

"I did not receive any of the statutory notices for this Penalty Charge Notice, in particular the Penalty Charge Notice and the Order of Recovery. Consequentially I was unaware of the outstanding penalty charge. I sold the car in question (registration plate: RV56 VTG) as a part exchange with a trader on 11/10/2023 which is prior to the date of the alleged contravention, please see the attached receipt. I was not the owner or the driver of the car in question on the date of the alleged contravention. I only became aware of the details of the contravention on 11/07/2024 following a series of text messages from a debt recovery company.

I moved to address *************** on 03/11/2023 as shown by the attached documents (completion statements for both properties). Again the move is prior to the date of the alleged contravention. At that time I was unaware that the Registered Keepers details for RV56 VTG had not been properly updated with the DVLA."

May I suggest you just look at what you've written pl. IMO the chronology and rationale are askew.

You moved from your V5C address in August.
You did not notify DVLA. This is not actually necessary provided that the address is still a functioning serviceable address for you. For example, you could have put in place mail redirection to anywhere of your choosing and left the V5C address as is provided you could be served with notices.

So, what did you do?

And if you might claim that you didn't have a serviceable address in the interim, then you still didn't have such an address when you traded-in your car! If there was an address which the trader could have inserted then what was it given that you still hadn't moved into your new address and why hadn't you notified DVLA of this address?