Author Topic: Bailiff aberdeen city council. bus gate fine. Bedford road bus gate.  (Read 218 times)

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Flipflop1982

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Date of offence 7/11/22
First learnt of offence 2/8/23 from the linked bailiff letter.

Between October 22 and Janurary 23 i was in the process of selling my house in Hampshire, and buying/ moving to a new address in Aberdeenshire, whilst living with family in Essex due to mobility issues.
New house purchased October 22. Drivers licence was re issued with new address by DVLA 11/11/23.
6/1122- 10/11/22 i attended the new property to open the door for the moving men to place my belongings in the house.
I then returned to Essex where i was assaulted and did not move to Aberdeenshire permanently until 10/1/2023 after buying an automatic car to enable me to drive and the hospital had okayed me to do so.
V5 of old car (car which is on the PCN) was within moving boxes at my new address between November22 until Janurary 2023.
I was unable to change the address on the v5 between november and Janurary due to not having access to the v5 (600miles away) at the time.
The old car was sold in essex 18th Janurary 2023 after moving into the new house, and sending the v5 to family to sell on my behalf.

I recall driving through the area at the time as i was lost, but do not remember seeing any signs that stated what time the bus gate was in effect. Having never seen a bus gate before, i did not know what it was or how it worked, yet could see parked cars either side of it, and cars driving in the street ahead, so knew the entire street was not for buses or pedestrians only.
Googlemaps of 2023 and 2022 confirms the placement of temporary signs for the gate, right next to the permanent signage, yet one or more of these temporary signs seem to be missing or laying on the ground invisible, depending on the dates chosen.
I surmise that had i of seen these signs i would have read them and understood. It is likely the signs were missing on that day, or laying on the ground given the area is a student thoroughfare.

Either way, i do not want a ccj for a pcn i knew nothing of for 9 months. If someone thinks I can sort this out, please reply

https://imgur.com/a/i31PKPo

https://maps.app.goo.gl/BVrbhHkCD26qw2wG7
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 10:19:48 pm by Flipflop1982 »

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cp8759

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Re: Bailiff aberdeen city council. bus gate fine. Bedford road bus gate.
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2023, 11:49:41 pm »
It's very unfortunate in the circumstances that the PCN was issued in Scotland, in the rest of the UK we could easily help you reset the PCN. In any event don't worry about a CCJ, no penalty charge notice can result in one of those.

However unless you want to take out a judicial review against the Scottish Government for breaching the Human Rights Act 1998, there is nothing you can do about the Charge Certificate because the Scottish legislation goes not allow you to make any sort of appeal in these circumstances.

There is no right to any sort of legal redress in these circumstances and there is no court or tribunal you can turn to. This is really something you'll have to take up with your MSP, or you could email those responsible for this area of policy at the Scottish Government i.e. Fred.O'Hara@transport.gov.scot / 0141 272 7293 (but he's previously made it clear he doesn't care) and Sharon.Wood@transport.gov.scot (who did seem to care but then said it wasn't her area of responsibility any more).

As far your charge certificate goes, you can write to the council and explain the circumstances, but if they insist you have to pay the full amount there's basically nothing you can do (apart from the judicial review option mentioned above), so you'll just have to pay.

As for why this breaches the Human Rights Act 1998, that is because Article 6 says:

In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law.

However in the determination of your rights in respect of the charge certificate, you're not entitled to any hearing before anyone at all.

Sorry that this sucks, but it is what it is. I think a judicial review could be won, but that would be a lot of effort to fight.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Flipflop1982

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Re: Bailiff aberdeen city council. bus gate fine. Bedford road bus gate.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2023, 12:09:01 am »
Hi, thanks for the reply and your detailed response.

Im not exactly thrilled to have to pay £130 for what probably would have been a much lower penalty months ago, but am willing to pay it.
It is more important that i do not get a ccj, and although ccjs are apparently called something else in scotland i really dont want one on my credit file or have to declare one to any creditors or insurers in the future.
That said I am aware people play fast and loose with wordings of things such as private car park tickets, but am oblivious to how the law up here works in that regard as have onpy just moved here and found out!

I can only say that is what the letter i received states. That a charge certificate is the equivalent of a court decree has been obtained to collect the monies owed.

Are you saying they are playing fast and loose with terminology to scare me into paying faster, just as private car parking companies do and this has yet to occur?

If there is nothing to fight and definately no ccj im resigned enough to pay it now and be done with it

I just need to make sure that there is no ccj or equivalent because i do not think it fair to have it on my file for non payment before i even know of it.

Thanks again.

cp8759

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Re: Bailiff aberdeen city council. bus gate fine. Bedford road bus gate.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2023, 12:12:38 am »
Let me repeat: No penalty charge notice issued anywhere in the UK can result in a CCJ or equivalent going on your credit record. You could owe a million pounds in PCNs, it will show no trace at all on your credit rating.

The council is not playing fast and lose with anything, it's just that the law in Scotland allows the council to issue a document that has the same status as a court order, and there is no right of appeal.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Flipflop1982

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Re: Bailiff aberdeen city council. bus gate fine. Bedford road bus gate.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2023, 12:13:56 am »
Got it.
Thank you for explaining further.
And thank you for your time.