Author Topic: Bailiff - 4 x Marston Notice of Enforcement letters today, No PCN ever received/Bristol CAZ Charges  (Read 1114 times)

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bingodingo

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Hello Kind People,

Today I received 4 Bailiff letters (Marston Recovery, dated 20/7/24) about unpaid "Penalty Charges". These "Notice of Enforcement" letters all came in the same envelope, but refer to offences that took place on different dates:
- 18/2/23
- 29/5/23
- 30/5/23
- 11/6/23

Each letter is requesting £273, for a total of £1093. Quite a shock.

Upon doing some research I have found out that they are old Bristol CAZ infringements. It seems Bristol Council and myself were unaware of these infringements (until today) as my car is in a grey zone - OK for nearly all CAZ zones but not Bristol's more strict one.

I have included pictures of the 4 Bailiff letters as well as the Bristol online PCN info that I tracked down from the "Reference or account number (if appropriate):" on the bailiff letters:
https://imgur.com/a/R4R62ma

I am the kind of person who is cooperative with the system when I can be, but this has completely flummoxed me. The Bailiff letters list so little information, they don't even mention Bristol CAZ.
I have been at the same address for 6 years and have received no previous letters about these fines. It took quite a lot of time trying to get to the bottom of it today.
Any help greatly appreciated, we are just an ordinary family and I'm really not sure how we would pay for this at the moment.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2024, 08:37:31 pm by bingodingo »

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Incandescent

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All of the statutory enforcement documents would have been sent by post to the name and address on the V5C Registration Certificate for the vehicle. So is the address on your V5C correct in every detail and was correct when the alleged contraventions occurred in 2023 ?  You say you have lived at your current address for 6 years. So have you received the normal DVLA VED reminders, for instance ?

The statutory documents would have been
- PCN
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery
so all 12 have gone astray somehow.

H C Andersen

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If £1100 is a lot of money to you, try adding another £235to this!

Read the bottom of the NoEs. If you do not pay by end of play 9 Aug. then the visit would cost another £235 - luckily, if this is the word, only one Enforcement Fee should be charged.

My advice is cases such as yours is to pay. In your case set up an affordable payment plan now.

Why?

Because it caps your liability. You can then discover what went wrong and follow correct procedure in order to give you the best chance to access adjudication and appeal. Otherwise you risk submitting 'out of time' (OOT) applications to the Traffic Enforcement Centre with no reason for not responding to the OfR(see Incandescent's previous post for list of statutory notices)other than 'I did not receive them' which has a 99.999% failure rate.

If your OOTs are successful then the bailiff fees paid are refunded and the payment plan voided. The process reverts to the council with 'just' the full penalties in play.

bingodingo

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We have been paying for all car costs, insurance / ved etc, online.
I have been through my folder of records this morning and it seems when we moved I sent off the V5C with new keeper address details.
But we never received the updated V5C.
I feel a bit sick...

H C Andersen

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Get online to DVLA and update your V5C now pl.

Are you saying that there's chance(AKA risk) that your V5C has been out of date for 6 years?

As regards the council, others are more au fait with Bristol CAZ PCNs but I seem to remember that there's a flaw.

Hold off paying the bailiffs for now and wait for other views.

Enceladus

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Last V5c 20/11/2018, that's a bit less than the six years you say you've been living at your current address. So perhaps the Registered Keeper change of address was processed by the DVLA but the new V5c went missing?

I would check with the DVLA as to what address they currently hold for the RK?

The amount demanded for each PCN is £273. So that must include the unpaid £9 CAZ fee.

£120 = Penalty Charge
£60 = Charge Certificate uplift
£9 = CAZ fee
£9 = Court (TEC) debt registration fee
£75 = Bailiff compliance stage fee
£273 = Total

It's been held by the independent adjudicator several times that the Council cannot recover the CAZ fee in conjunction with the PCN. So you have a chance of winning if you can get the cases before the adjudicator. That said I don't see a route to do that if you've seemingly failed to update your address.

Consider approaching Bailiff Advice Online for help submitting Witness Statements with Out of Time applications.

bingodingo

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I have just spoken to the DVLA on the phone and they never received the new address notification and the vehicle is currently registered at my old address.

I was told to either fill out a V62 or perhaps I might be able to do it online.

So going forwards I will:
- register new address with DVLA
- contact Bailiff Advice Online for help submitting Witness Statements with Out of Time applications.

Is this the correct course of action?

I really really need to do my best to resolve this as otherwise we will have to sell the car.


bingodingo

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I am normally very good with this stuff and before sending in the V5C to change my address, I took a photocopy.

With this, I was just able to update the RK address online.

H C Andersen

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As per Enceladus, and absent any silver bullet which BAO might produce, I don't think you would succeed with OOTs. Therefore you're looking at damage limitation. In this respect, I think you need to approach the council direct and set out the whole story.

But before this, what do you mean by 'I have just received 4 Notices of Enforcement'?

How did they arrive? A window envelope with your name and address clear on agents' headed paper or what?

Are the NoE's addressed to you at your current address?

bingodingo

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Yes the notice of enforcement letters are addressed to my current address - my current address is printed at the top of each of the NoE letters (redacted with a black rectangle by myself).
I need to go find the envelope...

Pressman

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My advice is cases such as yours is to pay. In your case set up an affordable payment plan now.

Why?

Because it caps your liability.


That will not work. The company will send a bailiff round to set up the payment plan, and that's £235 added to the bill.

H C Andersen

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£235 is to execute the warrant by seizing goods, not an administrative step. OP, if you're concerned then do it on the phone.

For info, a very useful concise view of the regs from BAO's website:

If you fail to pay during the ”Compliance stage’ [the £75 fee stage] or you default on a payment arrangement, the enforcement company will pass your account to an individual enforcement agent. The agent will visit your property for the purpose of ‘taking control’ of your goods. At the time of the visit, an enforcement fee of £235 will be added to the debt. It is important to note that if the enforcement agent is enforcing more than one debt, he should only charge one ‘enforcement stage’ fee. He should’t apply ‘multiple’ charges.


Anyway OP, your address is out in the open, so let's dispense with any 'Don't tell them, Pike' thoughts!

Pressman

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£235 is to execute the warrant by seizing goods,



Quote
At the time of the visit, an enforcement fee of £235 will be added to the debt.



For those of us less informed, could you clarify which of these statements is correct?

H C Andersen

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Both.

At the time of the visit to execute the warrant and if necessary seize goods...
£235 may be added.

https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/bailiff-regulations/taking-control-of-goods-fees-regulations-2014

The link has further links to the Act and regulations themselves.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/schedule/made?view=plain

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/15/contents

Pressman

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Your third reference directs us to a table of regulations. Regulation 5(b) refers to "the first attendance at the premises." However, I could not find any mention of a £235 fee to seize goods.

I was unable to locate the authoritative source for your first link. However, it mentions: "If you fail to pay during the 'Compliance stage' or default on a payment arrangement, the enforcement company will pass your account to an individual enforcement agent.", which aligns with my earlier point that asking for a payment plan from the company is unproductive.

As your third link highlights, the fees, including the £75 compliance fee, are applicable to enforcement agents, not the companies, which suggests that negotiating a payment plan with a company may be futile due to the lack of legal authority for any company to engage in the capacity of an enforcement agent.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 08:08:56 pm by Pressman »