Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi,

Posted this on Pepipoo but was advised to post here also.

I have received a bus lane enforcement charge notice for driving in a bus gate on Guild Street in Aberdeen. I don't live in the area anymore so wasn't aware of the number bus gates and restriction that have been introduced in the city.

In all honesty I didn't even see the bus gate signs or process the marking on the road. In my opinion the signage is unclear as the blue bus gate signs don't stand out against the background (and are pretty high up) and confusing as there is a lot going on to process it all. As I don't live in Aberdeen I haven't been able to go back to check the signage but have found the images below.

As mentioned I wasn't aware of all the changes so was planning to drive along Guild Street as I'd usually do. When turning on to Guild Street (first attachment) I did take in the no access sign for cars/motorbikes but too late to be able to do anything about it. It's always been an area that has a lot going on in with multiple lanes, lights and crossings to pay attention to so with my concentration on being in the correct lane, cars turning off ahead and the oncoming lights I didn't even see / take a bus gate warning too. My mind was already wondering what / where am I supposed to go as Guild Street wasn't somewhere I'd think of being access only and I've continued through and not seen the bus gate (second attachment).

The new read layout means prohibition of motor vehicles, except for access as you turn on to Guild Street from Wapping Street and then the bus gate is thrown in for good measure at the end of Guild Street. So, I could have taken the first left off Guild Street and remained in the prohibited zone but avoided the bus gate if I had known.

It all looks so clear in a still photo! Even when I was coming back the other way later I only avoided ending up coming back through the bus gate in the other direction because the traffic was slow / stopped allowing time to process everything.

I was just going to pay the £30 reduced charge but have found some articles where the council is going to be making changing the signage to make it "even clearer" to drivers (links below). The council are going to make the bus gate signs more visible, colour the road surface etc. That seems an admission that the original signage is inadequate. The council were operating a grace period up to the 8th November. But sounds like locals have not even figured it all out so what chance to visitors have! The news on the improved signage is from the start of November so disgraceful to start sending out fines before making the changes.

Is it worth making an appeal based on the poor signage and fact that is being changed to make it clearer? Attached the charge notice for info too.

I've noticed some points in the ETRO that I'll check and add a post later.

Thanks.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/6245208/bus-gates-aberdeen-signs/

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/new-work-aberdeen-bus-gates-8878827










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I've fixed the links, here's the video:



@ev2021 have you got the ETRO?

I had thought the prohibition of motor vehicles might be incorrect as Wapping Street continues to Guild Street according to TomTom maps. Google maps show it changes to Carmelite Street so it is probably ok.

I'm not sure how Wapping Street or Carmelite Street have anything to do with it?

This is the Ordnance Survey map:



As you've correctly identified the restriction is “The eastbound carriageway, between its junctions with Stirling Street and Exchange Street”, so I'm not sure how the location of Wapping Street or Carmelite Street comes into it.

As for the fact that one of the bus gates might not have been implemented, I'm not sure that is lawful (if that is indeed what happened) but I also don't think that would give you a defence.

The only real defect I can see with the notice is that it wrongly states that if you make representations you forego the discount: this is nonsense, if you make representation and get a prompt response before the 14 days are up, you still have the legal right to the 50% discount. Or you might make representations, then think better of it and seek to pay the 50% rate before the 14 days are up. By suggesting that merely making representations means you lose the right to the discount, the PCN is misleading.

There is also a strategy of last resort which I've described here.

I can't see any other arguable grounds, so those are realistically the options you can pursue.

In any event don't send representations without showing us a draft first.

CP8759 is right about your absolute right to pay the discount at any time up to the end of the discount period even if you have submitted reps and not yet received a reply.  This situation arose some years ago when bus lanes started being enforced in England. Nottingham City Council also stated on their PCNs that if you submitted representations, you forgo the discount. In this case, despite not having had a response, the appellant went to pay within the discount period and couldn't because Nottingham's computer system was not programmed correctly to reflect the law. The appellant appealed to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal and won his case.

So what I suggest you do is submit representations on the basis of the poor signage, pointing out the council are no engaged in improvements due to many complaints. Don't mention the discount issue, but within the discount period, go onto their PCN payment pages and see if it lets you pay the PCN. If it doesn't you've got them over a barrel, although you'll have to take them to the Scottish adjudicators to put your case.

This may not help with your case.

But if in future you decide to drive into Aberdeen. You may look at this link to see where the bus gates are.


https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/roads-transport-and-parking/bus-lanes-and-bus-gates

Hi @cp8759,

I made a representation as suggested to see what happened. The payment page still gave the option to pay and make representations (bizarrely). So I just paid the reduced fine since didn't look like I had a case.

Thanks to all for the advice given.