3. 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
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Emma Parsons

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52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« on: February 28, 2024, 11:39:32 am »
Hi,
I, unfortunately, went through the new LTN at Streatham Place, South Circular - any ideas on the first representation.
Thanks in advance
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Hippocrates

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2024, 11:42:06 am »
Hi.  There is only one representation and we need the other page please.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Emma Parsons

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2024, 05:15:36 pm »
Apologies Here is the second sheet pages 3 and 4
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cp8759

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2024, 10:49:17 pm »
@Emma Parsons this is an easy win as it's a GLA side road, so it can be beaten on the same basis as these cases:

William Samuel v London Borough of Lewisham (2220837736, 13 December 2022)
Commercial Plant Services Ltd v London Borough of Lambeth (2230127577, 15 March 2023)
Maurice Luftig v London Borough of Hackney (2230151491, 15 April 2023)
Robert Greens v London Borough of Lewisham (2230366024, 11 September 2023)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Hackney (2230441786, 28 November 2023)

For now please make a representation saying the contravention did not occur, and let me know when you get the rejection.

Please tag me when you reply, I don't want you to miss any deadline as happened for the TFL PCN.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Emma Parsons

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2024, 02:14:08 pm »
Hi thanks for this however I had to appeal which has been rejected. I appealed because the signage was inadequate and since my alleged contravention new signage had been put in place. They rejected this saying that there was adequate signage that illuminates etc. I did a foi request and the illuminated signage was erected on 1 March when my alleged contravention was on 12 February. Not sure how the adjudicator feels about Lambeth Council misleading people on appeal rejections and whether it is worth going down this route.

So the external adjudicator appeal form has 'The contravention alleged by the Authority on the PCN did not occur' box. Shall I tick that?

Thanks for any advice - I'm in contact with someone who also got a PCN at this junction.
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cp8759

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2024, 02:28:17 pm »
Quote from: Emma Parsons on April 01, 2024, 02:14:08 pm
Hi thanks for this however I had to appeal which has been rejected
No, your representation to the council has been rejected, but the council always rejects everything so that doesn't really mean much. I did an appeal to the tribunal for 8 PCNs at this junction last week and the council didn't contest any of them.

Please can you post up the rejection?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Emma Parsons

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2024, 02:35:28 pm »
Hi,
Pls see attached.

Thanks
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Emma Parsons

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2024, 02:44:25 pm »
page 2
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cp8759

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2024, 03:04:15 pm »
Well nothing in the rejection really makes a difference, this case can be easily won on the GLA side road argument. I've dropped you a PM, if you'd like me to act as your representative please follow the instructions and we can take it from there.

Whatever you decide I would not pay the council as they have little hope of enforcing this.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2024, 12:00:30 pm »
Well for the first time every they turned up with written consent from TFL, and the arguments on the signage were also rejected, outcome here.

Oddly the consent is time-limited so it expires on 4 March 2025, we'll have to see if they renew it and if so, on what terms.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2024, 12:03:14 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2024, 01:00:28 pm »
Problem is:  they are being far too well-educated.  ;)
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

stevec

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2024, 11:32:15 pm »
Hello All,

We have just received a PCN for exactly the same contravention described in this thread i.e. turning into New Park Road (D), recorded on August 26th.

From the last messages, it looks like the once solid defence of Lambeth not having GLA consent is no longer valid, at least until March 2025.

Have I understood correctly?
Is there any other chance of appealing it or should I cough up while it's still in the discounted period?

Thanks!
Steve
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Hippocrates

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Re: 52 Failing to comply with a prohibition on v=certain tyoes of vehicles New Park Road (D)
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2024, 08:35:26 am »
Please start your own thread.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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