Author Topic: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)  (Read 301 times)

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swatches

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34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« on: September 27, 2023, 03:51:04 pm »
Another Merton 34J, similar to the other active one (sorry!).
Pepipoo


Council: London Borough of Merton
Contravention: Being in a bus lane
Location: Hartfield Road (between Hebert Rd & Graham Rd)

I've attached all the evidence that is available for this PCN.



The lower code on the PCN is weirdly printed.


My car is the black Honda.

My destination is Graham Road. 
I am aware that it is a left turn so am conscious that I will need to be in the left lane to make this turn.

The first image shows me outside the beginning of the bus lane.  The road markings are worn away and the edge line of the bus lane is not well defined until the written wording.
There is a grey car in front which I am following that impedes my view of the BUS LANE wording on the tarmac.  The next signage is after the BUS LANE wording.
Once the grey car clears the BUS LANE signage I clearly move to the right hand lane to avoid being in a bus lane. 
Once the clear demarcation occurs I am outside the lane.
I do not impede the flow of traffic in the bus lane and I only have two wheels are in the bus lane for approximately 2 car lengths.


Video show the situation best...
https://i.imgur.com/ScNtsZq.mp4

Is is worth appealing on these grounds?




« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 09:06:11 pm by cp8759 »

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Incandescent

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2023, 06:52:09 pm »
Looking at the video, I have to say what money-grubbing villains they are. This is the most trivial of trivial offences, and you would do well to take them to London Tribunals on a de minimis basis.

GRYOUT

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2023, 10:42:29 pm »
This is the road leading up to where I got my contravention notice too.

It's infuriating how unmarked and invisible these lanes are. Honestly can't believe they have a leg to stand on considering just how badly the markings have worn. Surely this can't be legal... surely.

The markings are like this around the entire one way system, and there's half a dozen bus lanes that stop and start after numerous side roads.

Makes my blood boil.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 10:44:03 pm by GRYOUT »

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2023, 04:19:21 pm »
I woud agree both points by members---clearly a de minimis infracton and the contravention is not made out because the thick white line is so degraded that the signage is totally inadequate.

Mike
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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2023, 05:17:11 pm »
I will take a look this weekend.  Then I will suggest a draft tweak of your own.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ
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swatches

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2023, 08:41:25 am »
I need to updated the driver for this PCN, but one minor thing I noticed on is that the capitalisation of the addressee's name is incorrect.  It is Jane Smith-jones rather than Jane Smith-Jones.

cp8759

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2023, 12:57:48 pm »
It is Jane Smith-jones rather than Jane Smith-Jones.
That is irrelevant.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

swatches

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2023, 09:06:07 am »
I didn't realise PCN were the responsibility of the registered keeper.
So the registered keeper has to appeal on behalf of the driver?
Should the appeal be written in first or third person?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 09:13:28 am by swatches »

Incandescent

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2023, 09:43:20 am »
It doesn't really matter, so write what suits you best. The key points to get across are the worn-out road markings.   These mislead you into starting to enter the bus lane which you then realised, and immediately drove back onto the traffic lane.  Therefore it was a very trivial incursion into the bus lane,
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cp8759

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2023, 07:37:08 pm »
I didn't realise PCN were the responsibility of the registered keeper.
So the registered keeper has to appeal on behalf of the driver?
Should the appeal be written in first or third person?
The appeal is on behalf of the RK, because the registered keeper is legally liable (i.e. it's the keeper's property that could ultimately be seized by the bailiffs).

If the RK wasn't the driver, the obvious options are:

1) The RK writes in the third person: I am appealing this PCN because although I wasn't driving, the driver tells me that he saw this and did that...
2) The RK write a letter of authority allowing the driver to make representations on their behalf, then the driver write an appeal in the first person.

It doesn't really matter which approach you take, but if you're the RK you want to be sure that representations are actually made so the one thing you don't want to do is give the driver a letter of authority and then forget about it.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2023, 01:07:06 pm »
As per pepipoo post: Yes and I am happy to assist personally.  Wait for the Enforcement Notice. The video evidence is rubbish, as is their initial response.

https://i.imgur.com/ScNtsZq.mp4

The road legends need to be maintained. If you are serious in taking up my offer, I will make an FOIR to Merton regarding this location. In one case I am doing, they sent pictures over 2 years old - a different location though. And they refused to attend the hearing - which they should when required.  So their evidence was kicked out.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 01:10:38 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

Hippocrates

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2024, 02:15:15 pm »
I believe the guy with the  Roger Moore photo appears on pepipoo is more than happy to take this one on!  ;D
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 10:57:37 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

swatches

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2024, 10:54:32 am »
Quote
Considering carefully all the evidence before me I am not satisfied that, at the time the vehicle is
shown to be at the location, the bus lane marking was sufficiently clear to advise the motorist of the
restriction
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.


Many Thanks to Hippocrates for the representation.

Hippocrates

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2024, 02:13:02 pm »
My pleasure.  Costs application to follow. They should never have contested this.  >:(
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 10:15:33 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ
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cp8759

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Re: 34J - Being in Bus Lane (Hartfield Road, Merton, SW19)
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2024, 11:55:04 pm »
Case number?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order