3. 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
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D23

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34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« on: February 14, 2025, 09:24:48 am »
Hello all,

I normally used to post on pepipoo but have found this to be the new forum.

I received a PCN that I don’t believe is fair (though, let’s be honest, they never are when you’re the one getting the ticket! 😆). I was hoping someone could take a look and maybe suggest grounds for an appeal.

The only reason I entered the bus lane was to make a left-hand turn. I’ve been using this route for the past two years, always following the same approach, and I’ve never received a ticket before.

Looking at the images, the PCN shows that I entered the bus lane at 07:24:34.083, and by 07:24:35.583—barely a second later—I had already reached the “End of Bus Lane” sign. It doesn’t make sense to drive past the sign and then immediately turn right, as the turn is practically on top of it.

Do you think there’s a chance of winning an appeal based on the fact that the right turn is directly at the end of the bus lane?

Here's a link with all the images and videos: https://imgur.com/a/4L1EqIw

Thanks for taking the time to read.
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stamfordman

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2025, 10:02:38 am »
Quote from: D23 on February 14, 2025, 09:24:48 am
It doesn’t make sense to drive past the sign and then immediately turn right, as the turn is practically on top of it.

The video though shows a clear contravention way beyond triviality, and undercutting traffic. So it makes sense not to get PCNs - it may be that this time you cut in before you'd been doing out of reach of the camera.

But there may be procedural issues with the PCN and camera.

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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2025, 10:11:09 am »
Well, as usual, I always start with the simple fact that they have to prove the alleged contravention. I see no upright signs passed in their evidence. Plus the last case I won against them they did not attend (fatal) and they provided the wrong certificate. So, I will draft something later for you. Be prepared for the long game. Please do not admit to anything: they must prove their case.

Case Details
Case reference 2240492648
Appellant Ambereen Mujtaba
Authority London Borough of Barking and Dagenham
VRM EK70VGP
PCN Details
PCN BZ80924907
Contravention date 23 Aug 2024
Contravention time 17:48:00
Contravention location Ripple Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date -
Decision Date 10 Dec 2024
Adjudicator Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.

Reasons
Mr Phillip Morgan has attended the hearing today as the authorised representative of the appellant.

This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being in a bus lane.

Approval from the Secretary of State for the type of prescribed device used for this bus lane enforcement is a requirement under paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (the 1996 Act) in order for the camera evidence to be admissible in these appeal proceedings.

The Council submits a case summary with their evidence for the appeal. That evidence includes a Certificate relied upon by the Council as evidence of type approval of the prescribed device. The Certificate is an unsigned document on blank paper dated 29 March 2022. The document is headed in bold type and capital letters TRANSPORT ACT 2000 and underneath CERTIFICATION OF “APPROVED DEVICES” UNDER ARTICLE 2(b) OF THE BUS LANES (APPROVED DEVICES) (ENGLAND) ORDER 2005.

I considered the same type approval evidence in appeal no. 2220486482 [Mr Davy Georges Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing]. My decision in that appeal was that the Certificate was not a valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. I refer to the relevant parts of that decision at paragraphs 42-61.

On the evidence before me, there is no valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. It follows that there is no admissible evidence of the appellant's vehicle being in a bus lane and the appeal is allowed.

Please sign my petition.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 10:24:22 am by Hippocrates »
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

D23

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2025, 10:35:58 am »
Quote from: Hippocrates on February 14, 2025, 10:11:09 am
Well, as usual, I always start with the simple fact that they have to prove the alleged contravention. I see no upright signs passed in their evidence. Plus the last case I won against them they did not attend (fatal) and they provided the wrong certificate. So, I will draft something later for you. Be prepared for the long game. Please do not admit to anything: they must prove their case.

Case Details
Case reference 2240492648
Appellant Ambereen Mujtaba
Authority London Borough of Barking and Dagenham
VRM EK70VGP
PCN Details
PCN BZ80924907
Contravention date 23 Aug 2024
Contravention time 17:48:00
Contravention location Ripple Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date -
Decision Date 10 Dec 2024
Adjudicator Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.

Reasons
Mr Phillip Morgan has attended the hearing today as the authorised representative of the appellant.

This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being in a bus lane.

Approval from the Secretary of State for the type of prescribed device used for this bus lane enforcement is a requirement under paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (the 1996 Act) in order for the camera evidence to be admissible in these appeal proceedings.

The Council submits a case summary with their evidence for the appeal. That evidence includes a Certificate relied upon by the Council as evidence of type approval of the prescribed device. The Certificate is an unsigned document on blank paper dated 29 March 2022. The document is headed in bold type and capital letters TRANSPORT ACT 2000 and underneath CERTIFICATION OF “APPROVED DEVICES” UNDER ARTICLE 2(b) OF THE BUS LANES (APPROVED DEVICES) (ENGLAND) ORDER 2005.

I considered the same type approval evidence in appeal no. 2220486482 [Mr Davy Georges Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing]. My decision in that appeal was that the Certificate was not a valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. I refer to the relevant parts of that decision at paragraphs 42-61.

On the evidence before me, there is no valid approval of the device for the purposes of the 1996 Act. It follows that there is no admissible evidence of the appellant's vehicle being in a bus lane and the appeal is allowed.

Please sign my petition.
thanks for the reply I don't mind the long game I will await your reply. I have not replied to them as of yet I will await instructions.
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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2025, 11:20:32 am »
« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 11:24:44 am by Hippocrates »
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

D23

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2025, 03:33:50 pm »
Hi there was wondering if you had a chance to tell me on what steps to take next as I think i have gone over the 14 days period charge. ??
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John U.K.

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2025, 04:20:53 pm »
Quote from: D23 on February 25, 2025, 03:33:50 pm
Hi there was wondering if you had a chance to tell me on what steps to take next as I think i have gone over the 14 days period charge. ??

Please post all sides of the PCN, only redacting yr name & address.

Then we may know if you have passed the discount stage.

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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2025, 08:49:12 pm »
As now requested twice: please the PCN and VRM details. Forget the 14 days matter as they do not even have to consider in this eccentric legislation.
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

D23

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2025, 09:12:25 am »
Please see attachment of the letter

I could argue I just received it as letters doesn't always get posted on time

please advise
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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2025, 11:23:40 am »
I make this initial submission against the PCN as follows:

 

1.  The PCN does not state the exact locus of the alleged contravention.

 

2.  The video evidence shows no relevant warning signage allegedly passed by the vehicle concerned.


 

Therefore, in view of the above, please cancel the PCN as you have not proved the alleged contravention.

 

Yours faithfully

 
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

D23

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2025, 11:59:32 am »
alright thanks I will put this forward to them like this:

Parking Appeals Office London Borough of Barking & Dagenham

Subject: Appeal Against Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number: BZ81465898]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal against the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [BZ81465898] issued to my vehicle (Registration Number: YK61TKU) on 28/01/2025 at 07:24 hrs for an alleged contravention of “34J Being in a Bus Lane” in Longbridge Road (Barking).

I make this representation on the following grounds:

Failure to Specify the Exact Location of the Alleged Contravention: The PCN does not clearly state the precise location of the alleged contravention. Without a specific locus, it is impossible for me to adequately review or challenge the alleged offence, which I believe renders the PCN unenforceable.

Lack of Sufficient Warning Signage: The video evidence provided fails to show any relevant warning signage that my vehicle allegedly passed, as required by law. Adequate signage is a mandatory requirement for enforcing bus lane restrictions, and the absence of visible signage casts doubt on the validity of the alleged contravention.

Given the above issues, I respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled as the council has not sufficiently proven the contravention occurred in a legally enforceable manner.

I look forward to your response and trust that this matter will be resolved fairly.

Yours sincerely,


^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that good enough ?
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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2025, 12:19:01 pm »
I would use "proved" not "proven". The latter reminds me of making bread.  ;D
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

D23

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2025, 12:36:38 pm »
perfect will use "proved"

will keep you posted

thanks for your response  ;)
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D23

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2025, 02:28:52 am »
hi there I have now received a reply from the council and they have disagreed with the appeal please see letter attached.

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Hippocrates

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Re: 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2025, 10:21:31 am »
Wait for the enforcement notice.
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899
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  3. 34J being in a bus lane - longbridge road (barking) PCN