Author Topic: 31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park  (Read 452 times)

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31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park
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Hi everyone,

Would be grateful for advice on an appeal here.

PCN Page 1: https://ibb.co/d5M0KF9
PCN Page 2: https://ibb.co/4phnt7q
Council video:

I believe this should fall under the right turn exemption. The driver has clearly entered the YBJ with the intention of making a right turn - and eventually forced to stop by the white van in front. The van is free to move at around 6 seconds into the video however, at this point the crossing is green for pedestrians so they remain stationary. Would this be justifiable exemption to why the vehicle remained in the box?

The other clear issue is that the video does not show the moment of entry and hence, it is impossible to determine from the video evidence, whether the exit was clear at the point of entering the YBJ.

Looking at similar threads on 31J, I have drafted the following appeal and would be grateful if it could be critiqued before I submit:

I am writing to appeal the recently issued Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) XXXXXXXXXX, relating to an alleged traffic violation committed with my vehicle registration XXX XXXX.

Firstly, I draw your attention to the absence of clear and complete evidence. The provided footage does not show my vehicle as it enters the box junction. For an enforcement decision to be fair, all relevant evidence including the moment of entrance into the junction should be reviewed. Such evidence is vital to establish the incident's context and determine whether a contravention occurred.

Secondly, my vehicle has entered the box junction with the purpose of turning right:

The box junction prohibition is contained in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, Schedule 19 Part 2 paragraph 7. This provides as follows.

"(1)Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, [box junctions] shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2)The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person

(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right: and

(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn."


Regarding the above exemption for entering the box junction when turning right, it is essential to clarify that this allowance applies when a vehicle is stopped by oncoming traffic or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. In my case, the footage does not categorically dispute this condition. I entered the junction for the purpose of turning right, believing the exit path to be clear. Therefore, I argue that it is not justifiable to assert that I should have foreseen, during my entry, that my exit would be blocked.

I further bring a collateral challenge on the basis that the PCN is unenforceable because the taken without consent ground clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner's permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances.

Lastly, The PCN is deficient in that it does not provide information about the location of the box junction other than stating it is in Cambridge Park which we can see from maps is a long road.

Therefore, I respectfully request that my representation be reconsidered, taking into account the points raised above and that the PCN be invalidated.


Many thanks in advance

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Re: 31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park
« Reply #1 on: »
Firstly the video does not show you entering the box. and even then you did so in order to turn right. No one knows if when you entered you were prevented from making the right turn by oncoming vehicles

Lets see the response to your reps when you get it this is very winnable

« Last Edit: April 10, 2024, 09:18:14 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: 31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park
« Reply #3 on: »
I think your draft is fine as it is, they'll reject no matter what you say but there's plenty to go on at the tribunal. Maybe Hippocrates will offer to represent you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park
« Reply #4 on: »
The Greek doctor is available.  ;)
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: 31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park
« Reply #5 on: »
@Gulley53 with a case like this and Hippocrates representing you, it should be an easy win at the tribunal.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 31J - Yellow box junction - Cambridge Park
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi @cp8759 and @Hippocrates - thank you for the responses and apologies for the delayed reply. As predicted the council have rejected my appeal.

I was awaiting a repsonse via email but they posted it to me - I have been so snowed under with work recently that I missed the letter, and only have about 1 week now to submit my appeal to the London tribunal. I will update the thread tomorrow with a copy of the rejection letter.

Dear @Hippocrates - thank you for the offer to represent me, I would happily take you up on that, many thanks. Typically, should my appeal to the tribunal be a repeat of the appeal text I posted above, is there any further info I need to add?

Many thanks in advance