Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all,

I was wondering if you feel I have grounds for appeal on the PCN I recently received.

This was on a very congested day and the lights at the box junction change very quick. It does appear that there is room in front of me, probably enough for me to fit, however there is a double decker bus turning and I wanted to give a wide berth.



PCN

https://ibb.co/km7w9my
https://ibb.co/Kh18MVP

Box junction is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/VFTpZFmoq6AvKaJ46
Peartree way

Would this qualify as de minimis ?
https://ibb.co/xq02zjv
https://ibb.co/S5R6jK4

From the PCN screenshots it looks like just one wheel in the yellow

Any help would be much appreciated

G

Thanks for checking.
To be honest. I am a bit confused on what I should have done here.
The lights turn green at the same time from where I left and the road merging with the bus.
As can be seen from google maps, there is no room for a car to wait before where the traffic merges.
If I had gone any further I would have made contact with the bus. If I had not entered the box junction I would have been there all day and infuriated a whole lane of traffic




[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Thanks for checking.
To be honest. I am a bit confused on what I should have done here.
The lights turn green at the same time from where I left and the road merging with the bus.
As can be seen from google maps, there is not room for a car to wait before where the traffic merges.
If I had gone any further I would have made contact with tepee bus. If I had not entered the box junction I would have been there all day and infuriated a whole lane of traffic

It'a typical crappy council traffic lights arrangement. They have no incentive whatsoever to improve matters as it will be making them shedloads of money. Just your luck a bus came along !
You could submit reps on the basis that a motorist going forward from your direction, and seeing a space beyond the YBJ, has an expectation that the junction traffic lights will be operated to allow his direction to proceed. When you entered the box, there was space on the other side. It's not as if there was stationary traffic there when you entered. So that would be my argument, but with the venality of London councils, I expect you will have to take them to London Tribunals and risk the full PCN penalty, as there is no discount option there.
So, stand your ground or pay-up !

What a silly set up. The OP's direction of travel is covered by traffic lights yet they don't stop traffic converging from the left. So we are left with a nice little trap--KERCHING!

Three key considerations:-

1) As already said --there is space for the OP's vehicle to completely exit the box, he/she is merely being careful of the bus.

2) The video IMO shows that the OP's exit was clear on entering the box.

3) I see no distinction between a vehicle entering the box and causing an obstruction to the OP's vehicle OR a vehicle which conveges on the extremity of the box thereby causing an obstruction. Both prevent an anticipated exit when that exit was clear on entry to the box.

Mike

The video starts with the vehicle already stationary in the box, it then starts moving and stops again. The contravention is at the point of entry, which was not at 3:29, it must have been 3:28 or earlier, therefore this is an easy challenge:


Send it online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.

Here is the rejection - we need to see what you wrote to them

I'm not sure that you stopped for stationary vehicles.
The initial stop was IMO more to do with the bus cutting across and at that time the bus was moving...you both became static at about the same time.
After that, there is room for you to clear the box but it is easy to believe that you didn't as a precaution against the bus cutting further over when traffic moved.

TBH not sure how an adjudicator would view it, the first part is IMO good enough to argue that the stop was not due to stationary vehicles, the second not sure.

I’ve made my mind up. I am just going to pay it and get this out of my life. I can’t risk it jumping to double the amount. I guess in future I don’t cross the junction until the road ahead is entirely clear and just ignore the honks behind me.