3. 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
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27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
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Hi There,

I wonder if one could cast eyers over this one.

Parked on a lowered driveway, but trhe driveway was closed a closed off, residential place. No opening and no obstruction.
A street parking officer issued this.

Considering the no obstruction occurred, i wondered is there a case for no conrravention?

Your thoughts would be most appreciated.

Thanks.
















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Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #1 on: »
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ovWHpnanz9Gs5di99

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86

I would say it's defunct therefore no contravention.

However if it was designed to allow cyclists to leave the carriageway and enter Stanedge Court then you would be in difficulty.

Mike
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Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #2 on: »
Here it is in July 2008; no fence and clearly dropped to give access : -.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qvhxFKbsRuaaF4SF7

Later views show a fence with a gate, like here, July 2012, the next time the GSV camera van passed: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3rQ13zVAnEi7i7dL8

So I think it is pretty clear that the purpose of this dropped kerb has gone. And what's more GSV shows that it has so a credible appeal can be assembled if the council prove to be obdurate.


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Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #3 on: »
@LemonTootski I am extremely worried by your screenshot and this in particular:



Please can you confirm if the notice to owner has been received, and if so whether a formal representation has been made?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on May 03, 2024, 12:03:26 am
@LemonTootski I am extremely worried by your screenshot and this in particular:



Please can you confirm if the notice to owner has been received, and if so whether a formal representation has been made?

Hi cp8759,

Yes, i completely realise I've left this a little late. Was completely inundated with other bits and pieces as life gets in the way. notice to the owner has been received, and no representation has been lodged to date. We're just a little late on this one.

But despite the PCN being the full amount, I'm just seeing if there's a case to be made as per the use (non-use) as per Incandescent's point:
Quote
So I think it is pretty clear that the purpose of this dropped kerb has gone. And what's more GSV shows that it has so a credible appeal can be assembled if the council prove to be obdurate.

It's probably likely the council won't uphold the Rep, and I might have to appeal. Does anyone know if there's has been any successful prescendents

Googling, shows a lot of cached information for PCN 27 on the old Pepipoo fightback forums, but unfortunately, the page/forum is no more (Why did we stop this useful resource,, with all this wealth of information?)

And fiunally, on Mike's point:

Quote
I would say it's defunct therefore no contravention.

However if it was designed to allow cyclists to leave the carriageway and enter Stanedge Court then you would be in difficulty.

If you assert that it's defunct and therefore no contravention, how would one encapsulate this in  the form of a representation?

I do realise that if it's not likely this case is in my favour, than just  to cut my losses and cough up ... But would first like to explore all avenues, as the initial overriding reason just for being at that spot was my understanding that the use of the dropped kerb (as entrance to residential area) is no longer in practice (Seeing the history from google street view imagery).

Any thoughts?

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A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #5 on: »
Please post the Notice to Owner.  I have a dreadful feeling you've left everything too late and have lost the option to submit reps against it.
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Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #6 on: »
@LemonTootski well most unhelpfully you've redacted the PCN number and the number plate so we're flying blind as we can't check the amount outstanding.

All you can do at this point is check for yourself, if the website still allows you to I suggest you submit a representation right this very second (not tomorrow morning) just saying that the alleged contravention did not occur. This should make it easy for them to issue a notice of rejection which is what you want.

If the PCN has already gone up to £165 let us know and we'll have to attempt an out of time representation, but there's no guarantee the council would agree to consider it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi there, thanks for your input. Fortunately, the fine is still at £110.

I can still make representations. The Council PCN notice details on the website states:
Quote
The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to £165.00 on Fri, 31 May 2024. Please pay £110.00 now.
So I guess there's nothing to lose now in spending time investigating this.

Why is it still £110 and not £165?
Lambeth actually extended the allotted time. After seeing the ticket, i popped into a corner ship for a minute. When I returned to my car I discovered that some schoolkids had ripped off the ticket from the car. Consequently, I had to contact the council to request a re-issue, which they did, 14 days later, hence, granting the additional time. As such, I still think there might be a case to investigate the legality of the contravention - and there is still time.

So the route I'm thinking of is the initial use of the dropped curve (as seen in historic GSV photos), is no longer the case.  Yet i lack the firm evidence and legal backdrop to clarify this, and thus contest the contravention - hence i am here.

If we believe there is absolutely no case to make (between now and say, 29 March), then I guess I am happy to cut my losses, pay the £110, and put it down to experience. This post would also help others in same situation.

But if it can be contested and and evidence proving the contravention is not enforceable, this would be highly beneficial to others.

Thanks for listening - Do let me know your thoughts.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2024, 11:50:42 pm by LemonTootski »
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A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #8 on: »
@LemonTootski this is really simple and does not require any extensive investigation:

Dear London Borough of Lambeth,

It is only a contravention to park adjacent to a dropped kerb if the kerb has been lowered for one of the statutory purposes listed in section 86 of the Traffic Management Act 2004. It is obvious from the Google Street View history that this particular dropped kerb was originally installed as a bin access ramp for the bins stored in Stanedge Court, see the image from July 2008 at https://maps.app.goo.gl/TSeQBmMtahEK7yreA

It might have been arguable that the lowered kerb could also be used by cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, and there is nothing to suggest that a "dual purpose" lowered kerb could not be enforced under section 86.

However by September 2020 access to this lowered kerb from Stanedge Court had been blocked off by the installation of a permanent fence, as shown by the image at https://maps.app.goo.gl/xt9in4vkLXkPxhxs6

That fence was present at the time of the alleged contravention and as far as I am aware, is still there.

As such the kerb no longer fulfills any of the statutory purposes at section 86 of the TMA 2004, even if one accepts that the kerb was ever lowered for the purposes of the statute.

I refer you to the case of Abigail Mendy v London Borough of Enfield (2160476330, 4 January 2017) and while I know councils love the mantra that first-instance cases are not binding, there is simply no reason to suppose the tribunal would reach a different conclusion in this instance.

In light of the above the alleged contravention did not occur, and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Submit this online and please make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks very much for this. I actually came across the Mendy case by doing some Google research, but could not find/read this case. Do you have a link?

A Google search points back to the old PePiPoo Fightback Forums - and sadly, this resource website is down. Please tell me the treasure trove of information can still be available to the public. I do hope this site is archived.

But cp875, thanks for this template for a rep. Before I submit, I just wanted to clarify. You stated:
Quote
As such the kerb no longer fulfils any of the statutory purposes at section 86 of the TMA 2004, even if one accepts that the kerb was ever lowered for the purposes of the statute.
Is that your assumption, or is it in fact?
I ask, because it is indeed my (and anyone else's) reasonable assumption that an old dropped kerb next to a blocked off/no-longer used entrance.  no longer fulfils its purpose, but where is this explicitly manifested in statutory law? Does the installation of the green fence nullify this, and is there precedent ? (I'm hoping this Mendy case which i cannot see, has similar precedent).

Any concrete info would be more than reassuring, thanks.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2024, 02:18:13 pm by LemonTootski »
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A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #10 on: »
@LemonTootski the case (together with every case I ever cite) is available on the PCN spreadsheet, you'll find this one here (open the link in column D).

As for the statutory purpose, Mike put a link to the statute in post 2 but here it is again: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86

The Mendi case is not a binding precedent (because it's not from a senior court), but it is compelling and it's hard to see how else the legislation could be interpreted without arriving at an absurd outcome.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2024, 11:33:09 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks,

Well, nothing further to add except, i'll put in the representation and see what happens.

Will update you in this sub as soon as i hear the outcome.

Thanks for all your help on this.
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A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!
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Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi all,
<br>
So just to update you. Lambeth have rejected the representation. Note the dates:
<br><br>






<br>

Is there anything in the Abigail Mendy v London Borough of Enfield (2160476330, 4 January 2017) case similar to this which, if I decide to appeal, i could cite as precedent?

Do you think it's a non-starter, and i should just cut my possess and fork up, or do you consider there to be decent grounds for launching an appeal.

Would be very much interested in your timely input.

Thanks again and hope to hear from you soon.

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A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!
Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #13 on: »
The council have made it easy for you

The lowered footpath is not to allow vehicles to cross, as the have nowhere to go

It is not for cyclists as there is no cycle track

It is not for pedestrians as there is no corresponding lowered footpath on the opposite side of the road

There is no point paying as the discount has not been reoffered.so stick it out

Send my a PM next week as i am on holiday ATM and i will look at this for you and help with your appeal

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Re: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM
« Reply #14 on: »
Peter Thomas doesn't even read the stuff sent under his signature.

Ask him: PThomas3@lambeth.gov.uk;

RC is the officer and I can assure you this lot are in complete disarray.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2024, 08:49:18 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

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Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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