Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all.

I have a complex PCN case which I'd be most appreciative of any advice.

---

I am acting on behalf of my partner, who suffers with ADHD and any form of paperwork for that matter. The vehicle in question is hers, her name, and she got the ticket when she was driving. I am merely helping her because I'm not happy with the series of events that has taken place and the fine imposed, the whole thing has been a joke from start to end.

---

I am not sure if this will affect anything but I have paid the fine due to the involvement of Bailiffs and threatening higher costs which my partner is not in the frame of mind to deal with at the moment. The total paid was £189 to 'Newlyn' on 29.11.2023, of which the council wanted £114.

---

---

The bay parked in looked to be 'Free for 30 minutes' at a glance, but reading the small yellow sign above it, it wasn't (actually not between anytime 5pm-midnight (see photo).

---

The yellow lines are extremely faint as proven by the warden's own photos of the vehicle.

---

Vehicle was 'Observed' between 14:24 to 14:29 on 06.06.2023 (5 Minutes) on the windscreen ticket but in the first actual letter they claimed the time was 16:21. (Differed from the warden)

---

I'm struggling to find the first letter now which is really annoying. I will try and find and update the post ASAP.

---

Location link here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LDF1v2ebVXdpULaz5 (The bay with 3 cars in)

---

I believe 5 minutes is on the bounds of de-minimus.

---

My partner had stopped to get a prescription from the pharmacy, no one was harmed, no crime was committed, no one was blocked.

---

Photo of vehicle and faint yellow lines'-

---

---

---

Photo of tiny signage

---

---

Date of event - 06.06.23

---

Initial PCN date - TBC

---

Date we moved house - 01.07.23

---

The V5 and driving licence has NOT been updated since however this can be done this week if it will help our case. Total error on our part as moving has been very stressful and some addresses were missed.

---

Am I worth pursuing an Out of time statutory declaration due to missing the NtO appeal form?

---

As I would have appealed given the times were in fact WRONG, which they admitted on their corresponding letters you will see below.

---

Timeline

06.06

Windscreen PCN as below

---

---

---

Partner sent this via email on the 19th June;-

---

To whom it concerns,

In relation to PCN: J170718165 I would like to challenge this.

---

I have always parked in this spot very briefly to grab medication from boots opposite, it had always been a 30 minute bay and I can see now from this parking ticket it had been recently changed.

---

I did check this at the time of parking and had absorbed the information as a 30 minute allowance, I was only for about 5/10 minutes max and in that time I sadly incurred a parking fine.

I have a learning condition and disability of ADHD to which I can send medical evidence or proof which means I lack attention to detail and find reading and interpreting signs difficult, this had been a genuine mistake on my part not helped by my disability.

I do have Clinical assessments to show I lack in these areas and will outline and define my condition in detail so you can better understand how I made the genuine mistake, please let me know if you wish to see this.

Kind Regards,

---

---

They then replied with this (Via email) on June 27th where they said the timing was 16:21 at the alleged time of contravention.

---

---

---

We then sent this back on July 4th (Via email)

---

PCN REF: J170718165

Thankyou for your recent correspondence as dated 27/06/2023

I wish to appeal this penalty notice of vehicle AG07 UXW on 06.06.23.

---

My grounds for appeal are as follows;-

The alleged contravention did not occur at the stated time on the letter dated 27.06.2023.

The time observed differs from the enforcement officers information meaning the contravention did not occur at this time. As this time differs from the previous information it is unclear what information the notice processor is using, and given the time frame of the alleged offence this is of utmost importance.

---

The recent letter dated 27.06.2023 also states that the vehicle was parked on a single yellow line. I have a photo from the time of the incident which shows this line is extremely worn and faint - especially when cars are parked there and taking up the bays closer to the adjacent junction. I would recommend these are repainted as it's very un-noticeable in its current condition. The white lines surrounding the bay are also extremely worn so it just looks like a normal road from the driving position.

---

To clarify;-

---

No harm or obstruction was incurred to anyone or anything.

---

The vehicle was there for less than 5 minutes, at differing times as stated in your letter.

---

The signage is extremely small and unclear to a hard working citizen with ADHD who was simply picking up a prescription.

---

I would consider this in the bounds of de minimis and respectfully ask that the PCN is to be cancelled, before taking further legal advice."

---

They then replied with this (Via email) on July 5th where they admitted their timing error, and still pressed on with the PCN.

---

---

---

---

After this point, we never received the NtO, whether this got lost at the original address and not passed on or didn't arrive I have no idea.

---

We then we got another letter out of the blue from "Newlyn" bailiffs passed on from incorrect address

---

---

---

I wonder if I should appeal for an out of time statutory declaration or not given the address situation.

---

Thoughts appreciated but I'd rather they had to do some work for their money, providing I/we can't get in trouble any further in asking at least.

---

An expensive 5 minutes that shouldn't have gotten to this point. But that's life sometimes. 

---

Thanks all.

The reason you are in a mess is because the V5 Registration Certificate for the car was not up-to-date at the time so is down to your partner, not the council. A Notice to Owner is always sent to the name and address recorded by DVLA for the vehicle.  A quick check using the DfT facility for VED, shows the last update to the V5 was 17th February 2017, six years ago.

The only avenue open to you is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that you didn't receive the NtO.  The big problem here, though, is that it was your fault that you didn't, by not keeping the V5 address up-to-date. In the request to submit an OOT SD the person must state why they think the NtO was not received. In addition to this, the council can, and will, object to the submission on the basis that they sent all the statutory documents to the V5 address. In your case, three were not received: -
- Notice to Owner
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

What I suggest is you put your story of your partner's difficulties to : -
www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk
who will advise whether submission of an OOT SD is worthwhile or not.  For a small fee, they will prepare your submission for you.

Yes I fully appreciate that. Life is hard to keep paperwork in order during a move let alone when you have ADHD lol. I agree with you, I was just trying to guage whether it would be worthwhile or not.

I will have a look at that website, could be worth a try, thanks. It's more out of principle / morals I'm at least trying! Cheers.

You also need to update the address on the V5, because it is still dated 2017 !

I will get her to do it, we only moved in July..

Sorry OP, there is a great deal of info here much of which is of second-order importance.

I want to know the addresses to which authority's responses to the extensive correspondence to the PCN were sent (for each letter), for example  as in address A, where you live now, or Address B, where you lived prior to your move;

I want to know how to square these:

Date we moved house - 01.07.23

And the date of their last letter which was 5 July, which would have been delivered after you moved, so how did it come to be in your possession?

It is irrelevant IMO that the V5C was last amended in 2017, what counts is the addresses used in June/July 2023.

Date NTO issued;
Date Charge Cert issued;
Date OfR issued?

Did the keeper put in place mail redirection (in their name) when they moved and for how long?

Hi,

ALL addresses are address 'B' where we used to live. (A member of her family still lives there - which was how we were able to be passed on the letters that arrived.)

nTo is unknown as we never recieved one.
Date charge cert? Not sure what this is.
OfR? Is this the initial windscreen slip?

Sorry, I'm not up to date with these forms...!