Author Topic: £195 pcn from council -please read  (Read 1439 times)

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Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #15 on: »
Hi all

Does anyone know what the LLA 2003 - No address for postal payments means? I've tried reading through the act but finding it a bit difficult and wordy. However on the spreadsheet below it meantions croydon council not adding an address for postal payments. Is this required by law? The pepipoo link is not working for me. On the charge certificate there was no options for postal payments so probably won't be on the pcn which could be helpful if it's a loophole


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #16 on: »
OP, one step at a time pl.

As you don't have a PCN yet???   

IMO, you're straying into what happened with the contravention and other PCN-related issues - when you haven't even got an OfR, let alone got TEC to revoke.


In short, you're getting ahead of the process. Pl just focus on checking with TEC from the second week in July to see whether an OfR has been issued.
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Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #17 on: »
@ekuhgk23 everything you've posted is all well and good, but as H C Andersen points out none of that matters right now.

You need to follow the guidance here please: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

Please confirm that you understand the next steps, or ask anything you want us to clarify.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #18 on: »
OP, one step at a time pl.

As you don't have a PCN yet???   

IMO, you're straying into what happened with the contravention and other PCN-related issues - when you haven't even got an OfR, let alone got TEC to revoke.


In short, you're getting ahead of the process. Pl just focus on checking with TEC from the second week in July to see whether an OfR has been issued.

Yes that's correct. Still no PCN. They have issued a reminder this week however. Should I upload a pic?

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #19 on: »
@ekuhgk23 everything you've posted is all well and good, but as H C Andersen points out none of that matters right now.

You need to follow the guidance here please: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

Please confirm that you understand the next steps, or ask anything you want us to clarify.

Thank you. I have read it and understand. However, please can you clarify if the form still has to be signed in front of someone? I have found conflicting recent guidance on this.

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #20 on: »
Thank you. I have read it and understand. However, please can you clarify if the form still has to be signed in front of someone? I have found conflicting recent guidance on this.
the form, when you eventually get it, will make that clear; it has to be sworn (by you) and signed in front of a court officer or solicitor who will then countersign as witness to that swearing.

The guide linked to you by cp8759 is correct; don't go reading any conflicting advice.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2024, 12:27:45 pm by Neil B »

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #21 on: »
Thank you. I have read it and understand. However, please can you clarify if the form still has to be signed in front of someone? I have found conflicting recent guidance on this.
As Neil says, just follow the guide and you can't go wrong. We have checked and rechecked the guide to make sure it's 100% correct.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #22 on: »
Hi all

Some news. While waiting for the days to pass, so that I could fill out the form above, I've found this article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68217847. It turns out croydon council were found issuing charge certificates and no pcns first.

I knew something was up and that I didn't get a pcn so did some digging. I tried contacting the number today (in Croydon's response at the end of the article). I recorded the call and there were some inconsistencies. I asked if they issued a pcn to me and they told me yes on 06/02 at first. When I asked how it was possible for them to do this on the same day as the alleged contravention when it would have been done via post they changed their tune. This car was also a replacement from a garage via my insurer so no way they would have had my details on the day. When I caught them in the lie they changed their tune, told me they did not know anything more and to email the pcn team. They couldn't find another date on the system -which is interesting as their charge certificate says 18/04 -but I wasn't about to tell them that so they could wriggle out of it.

I had already emailed on the weekend when I found the article. However, it could take 56days-90days for them to respond according to the automatic reply. They are cancelling charges that have been affected but only until January (info in article) so I will probably have to go through the process you guys on here outlined which is a shame as I'm certain the problem in the article has affected me. I have emailed a Croydon Councillor and will also email my MP.

My problem with this is, Croydon is bankrupt and has been for years. They know they are wrongly triple charging (£195 instead of £65) and yet months later seem to be trying to pull the same scam. To add to this, there is also the original issue that they are going after the garage for the money as well as me for the same contravention so really trying to monetise! I have a copy of the rejection notice they sent to the garage.

Link to the auto reply Croydon had on the mailbox https://imgur.com/a/QY8jQuR

If there are any other ideas of how to close this down sooner, please let me know. Otherwise, I will follow the steps in the post above. My ideal scenario would be to get them to cancel it with all the other incorrectly issued charges they are cancelling. I would wait until they get to my email but as shown in the link above, if it has already been passed to enforcement they are not cancelling and I don't want that to be me.

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #23 on: »
Hi all

Thanks for your help with this. This matter is now closed, in my favour  :D

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #24 on: »
Well done. Incredulous story.  But, hardly surprising.  :o
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: £195 pcn from council -please read
« Reply #25 on: »
So, resolved by reference to proper procedure.

What have you received pl?

This should close the matter as between you and the council...

..however....

this would not stop them in their stupidity/greed from contacting the garage once again. And if they did, where would this leave you and the garage?

You told us in June that the garage had received a Notice of Rejection(quite proper, I suspect, because I doubt they complied with correct procedure and as driver you have no liability). So the council's error was to pursue you, nowt to do with the garage as such.

And as the 28-day appeal period allowed the garage from the NoR has now lapsed they have nowhere to go procedurally*.

Have you kept the garage up to speed with developments? I'd hate for them to get a CC and then charge you..or would this be your insurer?

*- despite the 28-day period for making an appeal having lapsed they could register an appeal late and have a compelling case for doing so.