Author Topic: 14 - parked in an electric vehicles charing place during restricted hours without charging - but I did charge  (Read 346 times)

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IanO

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Hello,
This is a case of ridiculously bad timing and luck for me. I was in Kingston today to pick up my wife and my son from his music school for some shopping and also intended to charge my EV. When I parked in the designated EV charging bay, I realised my wife had my Electroverse EV charging card, so I popped out of the car to go in and find her. When I came back about 10 minutes later I already had a PCN as I started to charge my car! I am wondering now if I had been watched by the Warden before he decided to pounce.
I attach:
Copy of PCN page 1: https://ibb.co/mBVRKBB
Copy of PCN page 2: https://ibb.co/w65t7Cc
Proof of EV charging (invoice), I charged the car while were out and about: https://ibb.co/0VDtsLY
Google street view location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DpPfBuKFzjrnrvkZA
“Challenge grounds” that the Council provides: https://ibb.co/gPwxq8Y

I would like your view if I have grounds for appeal given that I was only momentarily gone to pick up my charging card? Yes I could have phoned her to come to me with the charging card, but my son is only 4 and they want at least one parent on site to supervise.
Also, some of the ‘challenge grounds’ seem a bit loose and were picked up on by @Hippocrates in two other posts from September here https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/new-malden-code-73-parked-without-payment-of-the-parking-charge-malden-centre-ca/ and here https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/kingston-code-232-parked-in-a-loading-bay-canbury-park-road/msg38370/#msg38370 .
“The order was invalid” – this won’t mean anything to a lay person, what order? “The penalty charge exceeded the amount”, what amount are they talking about? How am I supposed to know what this means without spending plenty of time researching?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2024, 09:45:18 pm by IanO »

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Incandescent

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Well, no harm will be done by submitting an informal challenge based on your narrative here. They may give way but don't hold huge hopes. Don't be confrontational.

ParkingDelphinium

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Did the CEO take any photos?

Did you connect the car and charger before you realised?

On the electroverse app you can start charging without needing the card.

H C Andersen

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OP, before you submit anything I suggest you get your account crystal clear, in particular ParkingDelphinium's questions and comments.

So, you parked..and then what? Did or did not connect a cable to your car and then realise that you didn't have this card- not that it seems essential given the comment in the previous post? Your comment 'so I popped out of the car to go in and find her' suggests you did not connect.

In which case and whatever your intentions, you were in contravention for at least 10 minutes. On this point, how did you know you were away from the car for 'about 10 minutes' or have you just lifted this from the CEO's obs times?

And CEO's don't camouflage themselves waiting for an unsuspecting motorist to arrive so that they can 'pounce'. It takes two to get a PCN: the contravening motorist and a CEO.

Bottom line, instead of vacating the EV bay you decided to stay wile not charging so I suggest (under the heading of not being confrontational) you don't seek to minimise what you did(particularly as we haven't seen photos or the CEO's notes). What evidence do you have that you did charge there?

Are you the registered keeper with up to date DVLA details? I ask because if they reject your reps the next(formal) notice (Notice to Owner) would go to the registered keeper. 

IanO

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Hello,
Yes the CEO took photos with time stamps of 14:14 and 14:15. No photos
from the start of the observation which the PCN alleges was at 14:04.
I started my charge at 14:18 as shown in the earlier invoice so just missed him.
I parked and I did not plug the car in to ‘pretend’ I was charging (that would surely deserve a fine!), as I was in a rush to go in and get the card.
I normally charge at home, I haven’t used a public charger in almost a year so I was logged out of the app and didn’t want to waste time with password resets (not least because phone 4G reception with O2 in that part of Kingston is horrendous).
And yes I am the registered keeper of the vehicle.
£55 just seems harsh given I did charge for the rest of the afternoon, I had just left the car momentarily to retrieve the physical card from my wife who couldn’t come to meet me

H C Andersen

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Then this is what you put to the authority.

No point blaming the CEO who simply saw you car in an EV bay not charging and, not being clairvoyant, had no idea why and in truth didn't need to worry: your challenge to the authority is your turn to put your side of the story. But on the basis of what we know your argument goes to mitigation only.
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stamfordman

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Where are the council's pics? You've blanked the PCN details.

IanO

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hi @stamfordman @H C Andersen the PCN photos are below.
I charged for 4 hours, just got there 3 minutes late hence why I feel a £55 fine is a bit of an over-reach







H C Andersen

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I charged for 4 hours, just got there 3 minutes late hence why I feel a £55 fine is a bit of an over-reach

Why are you continuing with this line here?

You did not start charging until after the PCN was issued. I suggest you make a challenge but remember your points - I won't call them arguments in case you argue, which would be the wrong tone- go to mitigation.

If you don't like London parking penalties..then tango sierra I'm afraid.

Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?

stamfordman

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The bay is correctly signed.

All you have is a plea for discretion - realised wife had card, ran after her, got back and put car on charge as per attached... Would you kindly cancel on this occasion and will be more carful in using your charging bays in future.

mickR

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or get the wife to park the car.

Martyn21uk

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or get the wife to park the car.

Kerbed alloys cost more than a PCN  ;)
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Hippocrates

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PM received. But, I need the VRM and PCN details to check their website. How dare they treat musicians like this?!  ::) I will turn the volume up next time I play in the Market Square - when it is free from all the naff stuff on sale there at present.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

IanO

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PM received. But, I need the VRM and PCN details to check their website. How dare they treat musicians like this?!  ::) I will turn the volume up next time I play in the Market Square - when it is free from all the naff stuff on sale there at present.

thanks:
VRM: AJ21 NSZ
PCN: QT10074816

Hippocrates

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Cannot access grounds unless you go to add further info.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε